You dont shut them down.
You build something better.
You compete through a Billiard Room Association League and Tournament System.
And win.
Pool Sharks in Vegas is Closing
- Thread starter DavidMNienow
- Start date
You dont shut them down.
You build something better.
You compete through a Billiard Room Association League and Tournament System.
And win.
if yor dream league...billiard room association league is not based on apa princilps it will never be as succesfull as you want it to be.
if its full of self righteous " serious pool players " who thumb their nose at new players who cant run 2 balls starting with bih it will never be able to compete with apa.
i have been known to be a staunch supporter on here concerning apa....let me explain why.
several years ago i was playingin a bar....having one of my good nights keeping the table pretty much all night long. after beating this one guy 4 or 5 times he asked me what league i played on. i told him none. i told him i had never played league. he asked why ? i told him i did not think i was good enough. he said...heck you are better than any one on my team. he said he was co - captain and said he could use some one like me and asked if i would join. i said ok.
well i show up that night and look him up. it was an in house bcapl league at a pool hall. he introduces me to the captain and said he wanted me to join.
the captain asks me what my handicap is ...i tell him i dont have one since i have never played league. he then asked if i could make a long straight in shot. i laughed and said...most of the time. he then asks the co captain where he met me at. he replied in a bar and that i was pretty good. the captain replies...if he just plays bars he cant be that good and i dont want him.
the co captain then apologized and asked me to follow him to see the lo. he tells the lo that i wanted to join a team. he managed to get me on a team and i really relished the night we faced that captains team and i won all 5 matches.
due to an injury and other setbacks i quit pool entirely for a few years.
started dating a girl and she asked me to join her apa team. i was welcomed with open arms and have been offered countless times to join other teams..
after reading this i hope you understand my position on apa.
i have the ut most respect for mark griffen ...his pool leagues and what he has done for this sport but i will say the mentality of his league players leave a little to be desired concerning new players. every time an issue is brought up on here conceening apa you have quite a few posters say....join bcapl. when they say things like that they all remind me of that 1st bcapl captain i encountered and its a shame really.
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YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.
Sorry.....I couldn't read your post to the end.
Which APA principles are you referring to?
The one where handicaps are computer generated and easily manipulated....creating an ongoing war?
Or the one where the percentage of payback is ridiculously small?
How about the one where rules of the game have to be changed so that the bar fly can understand?
question 1... i have never had a problem with mine or any one i faced handicap. that crap mostly comes from people who lost to a lower handicap player and will not accept the fact that they had a bad game or their opponent had a good game. are their sandbaggers in apa " of course there are but ALL leagues have them.
question 2. i..and plenty of others do not play pool for money...we are not pros . if i want to play for money i would join various money leagues around here....which i have a few times but got tired of all the obvious sandbaggers and drama queens arguing over rules. nothing brings out the worst in people like money.
question 3. i have never had a bar fly interpret rules for me in any league. do they do that in your area ?
yep...he is a likeable guy. that is why i am giving him such a hard time. :grin:
Kevin Cheng did tell me that there are NO 7 foot tables in Taiwan.
Just sayin....
JoeyA
Leagues......
This is a great read. But I think too many people are missing a lot of the basic info. I would go into some detail - but maybe another time.
I know what I would would get into name calling - because most people don't see the whole picture.
Couple of things: Teacherman really is for pool. He comes across a little abrasive- but his message is partially correct. Pool rooms will continue to fail, but leagues aren't the real problem. I believe league and pool room (7' and 9') can co- exist fine.
Any pool room is supposed to protect their regular players from being 'taken off' by an out of towner. This problem is exasperated because of no standard rating system. An A player means a lot of different things. So does any (APA) style numerical system. And that is why FARGORATE is so important. It will create a standard that works across the board. (Www.fargorate.com)
My last comment is that leagues are supposed to be good for a pool room or bar. Because they are supposed to get pool time. Guess what????? Ask around- you will find many leagues demand open tables (free time). That doesn't help a pool room. That's bleeds it to death. That is often promoted by the league operator (franchisee). Ever see a bowling alley not charge for league play? Bet you didn't. This is the biggest cancer in the US pool scene. (And I think this is what Teacherman is partially saying about 7' league play) my attitude has always been: if it's free, then it has no value.
But let's try to solve the issue in a peaceful, mature manner.
BTW- I'll take this opportunity to 'pre-announce' the return of the US OPEN STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPIONSHIP (yay). It will be played on 9' tables (gold crown). It will be April (20-24) - it will be on the East Coast at Pool Table Magic (Windsor Locks, Ct). Produced by CSI (in conjunction with Pool Table Magic (Mark Kulungian).
So - this shows that CSI feels 7' and 9' tables can compliment each other. Which once again reinforces the importance of FargoRate.
More info to come soon.
Mark Griffin, CSI
This is a great read. But I think too many people are missing a lot of the basic info. I would go into some detail - but maybe another time.
I know what I would would get into name calling - because most people don't see the whole picture.
Couple of things: Teacherman really is for pool. He comes across a little abrasive- but his message is partially correct. Pool rooms will continue to fail, but leagues aren't the real problem. I believe league and pool room (7' and 9') can co- exist fine.
Any pool room is supposed to protect their regular players from being 'taken off' by an out of towner. This problem is exasperated because of no standard rating system. An A player means a lot of different things. So does any (APA) style numerical system. And that is why FARGORATE is so important. It will create a standard that works across the board. (Www.fargorate.com)
My last comment is that leagues are supposed to be good for a pool room or bar. Because they are supposed to get pool time. Guess what????? Ask around- you will find many leagues demand open tables (free time). That doesn't help a pool room. That's bleeds it to death. That is often promoted by the league operator (franchisee). Ever see a bowling alley not charge for league play? Bet you didn't. This is the biggest cancer in the US pool scene. (And I think this is what Teacherman is partially saying about 7' league play) my attitude has always been: if it's free, then it has no value.
But let's try to solve the issue in a peaceful, mature manner.
BTW- I'll take this opportunity to 'pre-announce' the return of the US OPEN STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPIONSHIP (yay). It will be played on 9' tables (gold crown). It will be April (20-24) - it will be on the East Coast at Pool Table Magic (Windsor Locks, Ct). Produced by CSI (in conjunction with Pool Table Magic (Mark Kulungian).
So - this shows that CSI feels 7' and 9' tables can compliment each other. Which once again reinforces the importance of FargoRate.
More info to come soon.
Mark Griffin, CSI
Gee, guess you didn't get the message. This thread stopped being about Pool Sharks about four pages ago
. Since then it's been about individuals, their knowledge of the business of pool rooms, leagues and the curse of the 7 footers. Sharks has always been less than immaculate. Don't know about the clothes as "grunge" still appears to be in style.
See you at the Mosconi next Tuesday.
Lyn
How is the quality at Cue Club these days? If I lived out there and the place was any good it would be perfect for me given it is next door to one of the best Thai restaurants in the country. It has been a couple of years now since being in there but last time the bathrooms weren't even barely working. Have they fixed it up?
great post mark and good luck with your tournament endeavors.
your point about league and pool ...7' and 9 ' coexisting is spot on and what i tried to convey in my post about a certain pool hall here but got sidetracked. our sunday night division has so many teams that we play on both 7's and 9's that night cause there are not enough 7's available. i ...and almost every one else enjoy playing on both. its a nice change of pace along with helping improve our game.
no league in my area gets free table time during matches but as i stated...one room owner provides free practice time before and after matches start. its not a league requirement...he does it on his own free will .
Joe,
The Cue Club has changed significantly in the last couple of years. Depending on when you were last there, the room is half the size. The seven Ernesto GC's are still there as is the Diamond 9' Pro/Am. The bar boxes have been moved around the room and are mostly located on the North side of the room. The snooker and billiard tables are still on the top level. The bathrooms are somewhat cleaner. Like Pool Sharks, the old in the room is showing through the re-paint.
I'll be in Vegas next Monday. I'll try to give you an update. Understand Good Timez is now getting the action matches. Perhaps the "no smoking" and live streaming has helped them immensely. Being new can't hurt either!
Lyn
Gee, guess you didn't get the message. This thread stopped being about Pool Sharks about four pages ago
Sharks has always been less than immaculate. Don't know about the clothes as "grunge" still appears to be in style.
See you at the Mosconi next Tuesday.
Lyn
i am one of the guilty one helping derail this thread this time.
in my defense i don't think teachermans blaming leagues had anything to do with pool sharks closing.
if he had bothered reading my long winded post instead of the 1st snippet he would understand my position a little better. getting rid of bars and apa is not gonna help places like pool sharks stay open.
Thanks for the update.
Mark,
This is the AZ Billiards Main Forum. Peaceful and mature manner :rotflmao: ?
Look, we all know you're trying to make water flow uphill. I want better league nights and tournaments as much as you do. Perhaps more. My local BCAPL league has shrunk from twenty four teams to nine in less than a decade. The local APA isn't doing much better. See the future of the game going to seven foot tables. Think your vision is somewhat the same. It will take all sides to secure the future of the game of pool. The WPA, BCA, all the league sanctioning bodies, tournament promoters, the billiard equipment manufacturers, the pool room owners and the players all have to have a somewhat common vision. Without each other, the game is finished. At least as well know it.
Lyn
In the 80's, The Color Of Money movie gave the pool industry a windfall. A second (or possibly 3rd/4th/5th/) chance. The industry wasn't smart enough to parlay that into a future. Everyone loved to dip.....to get their piece of the pie....quick....and run.
"Pick em clean quick".....was the standard operating procedure.....it's all pool has ever known.....and they did.
And once again....this great game is in the shitter.
This industry suffers from an Intelligence problem. Always has.....and unfortunately.....always will.
It suffers from a lack of trust. Always has....and always will.
It suffers from a lack of leadership. Always has....and always will.
It has always been about "how can I get mine"....without any thought given to "what is best for the sport".
My room is for sale. I don't fit. 27 yr old room. 18 Blue label Diamonds. Anyone interested contact me privately.
"Pick em clean quick".....was the standard operating procedure.....it's all pool has ever known.....and they did.
And once again....this great game is in the shitter.
This industry suffers from an Intelligence problem. Always has.....and unfortunately.....always will.
It suffers from a lack of trust. Always has....and always will.
It suffers from a lack of leadership. Always has....and always will.
It has always been about "how can I get mine"....without any thought given to "what is best for the sport".
My room is for sale. I don't fit. 27 yr old room. 18 Blue label Diamonds. Anyone interested contact me privately.
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i happen to agree with everything you say here.
hate to see you sell your room . i know your heart is in the right place concerning the future of pool and i know also you contribute to the sport in every way you can.
i just happen to disagree with your stance on bars and leagues.
good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Banks
Banned
I offer open tables for league play. Are you in the office today?