Pool - Stopping the Decline and Going Mainstream

I live in the northwest burbs of Philadelphia and though there are not a lot of poolrooms around they all seem to have rates on weekends of $7 from 12 noon to 5pm and weeknights of $7 from 5pm to midnight which I think is very reasonable. From the threads I have read the rates are higher elsewhere. The owners of the rooms realize they will take a hit in the warmer months of the year and make all their money in the colder months when they run their leagues and tournaments.
 
Well Ive seen a few things that tell me the Market Has Changed.

How many people do you know that can drop $15 to $20 three to 4 times a week and think nothing of it month after month?

At $60 to $80 dollars a week that would put a Pool Habit at around $ 240 to $320 dollars a month......groceries are high.....gas has been high and people have mouths to feed. Some of them save nothing for retirement, emergencies etc

That makes pool as a regular hobby kind of expensive.

Yes I love pool but economically it is what it is. One can afford only so much unless they play league pool or hit the specials every week and make that what they do.

That's what I do and I am playing more with better players that have a table.

I recently witnessed a room lower rates Monday thru Thursday evening and the business exploded. It seems its hard for a Room Owner to get past himself but when he does it has some rewards. Now the Juke Box never stops, people eat and drink and more people are present.

I think this is a clear indication that People want a Value for their money and the Market Has Changed somewhat for the viability of paying the highest price per hour for it.

It might even clue us into some reality about what this....Sport .....cost to play. I could save that much money over time and partially retire on it if I did it a long time. That's a lot of dough for entertainment.

All that being said:

Pool is like many things People come into it and leave it on a regular basis. Only the die-hards remain because they find a way to be able to afford a level of play that they can live with. Do they spend money ....Yes.....but they don't spend it like it was found growing on trees because......its expensive .....and they have reached a point in the Pool Life Cycle where they really don't have to have it to the point they will impoverish themselves.

A New Player....is different.

He is trying to master his new love so he finds the money somehow. Everyone is looking for a cheap way to play pool and many room owners are missing the boat on some of that money by not having specials that are available on a regular basis to fulfill that need of their regular crowd.

Its a lot of things video games, no Color of Money, yada, yada , yada, but what it likely is, is an industry which because of video games, the rising rent, etc whose market has changed and the economic raise in hourly rates that was thought to have been needed due to raising expenses....might have been the exact wrong thing to do.

In that way Pool Rooms could move out of Sportbars eventually and into small home town rooms that sell snacks, beer and crackers and are open to kids.

They won't make the owners rich but they will provide a few jobs, provide a place for kids to go and return the Lifecycle of Pool back to some normalcy....if retired guys go to opening Pool Rooms to have somewhere to hangout.

It could happen but the way I see it, when the noise is excluded....

The Overall Market Changed and we have failed to respond up to this point.

What a thoughtful and well presented position. I could not agree more. It has certainly proven to be correct in this area.

I was a golf fanatic; played twice every week. I took golf holidays each spring and each fall to extend the season. Then golf exploded and within a couple of years the green fees doubled. I still played until I hurt my rotator cuff and could not play one season. I was surprised at how much extra money I seemed to have. Golf is now struggling at the course level and has had to drop prices dramatically.

I took up pool as an older player and loved it. I did, however, notice that at $9-$10.00 an hour the bill could get up there after a 3-4 hour session. While league play may seem less expensive most of what you get when playing in a league (and paying $10-$15 for the privilege) is standing and watching until it is your turn to play and then 3-5 games later you’re watching again; the camaraderie is, as they say, priceless. To improve I bought a table for my home so I could practice when I wanted.

Currently, the two most successful venues in our area are one that charges a flat fee of $10.00 from 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. and another that has free pool for league players in the afternoon, Seniors specials and a special afternoon program for the nearby high school. A balance of league play and weekly tournaments fill in quite nicely. Even with my home table I go to these two venues because it gives me a chance to compete and socialize.

Once more, well put.

Jerry
 
Cost is not an issue with pool.

Leagues and bar bangers not playing is not an issue with pool.

Issue is that there is no Pro organization and the general public does not care for the game outside of calling everyone that can make 3 balls in a row "Minnesota Fats" or a "Pool Shark".

That is why all of the "fixes" are for trying to get the pro events stable where the top players in the world can make more than 30k a year after expenses.

Although I keep hearing about players betting 10k sets so they must not be doing that badly since I think twice about toing to a $40 entry tournament and my household income is about 2x the national average.
 
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Cost is not an issue with pool.

Leagues and bar bangers not playing is not an issue with pool.

Issue is that there is no Pro organization and the general public does not care for the game outside of calling everyone that can make 3 balls in a row "Minnesota Fats" or a "Pool Shark".

That is why all of the "fixes" are for trying to get the pro events stable where the top players in the world can make more than 30k a year after expenses.

Although I keep hearing about players betting 10k sets so they must not be doing that badly since I think twice about toing to a $40 entry tournament.

I'm not fully convinced the pro game has anything to do with the decline or ascendency of the game. I think the weekend amateur baseball or football player would continue to play even if there were no MLB or NFL. They play because they love the game. I think the issue is getting young players interested. We have to mentor them. Believe me these young players have plenty of friends and word of mouth is still the best advertising IMHO.
 
Cost is not an issue with pool.

Leagues and bar bangers not playing is not an issue with pool.

Issue is that there is no Pro organization and the general public does not care for the game outside of calling everyone that can make 3 balls in a row "Minnesota Fats" or a "Pool Shark".

That is why all of the "fixes" are for trying to get the pro events stable where the top players in the world can make more than 30k a year after expenses.

Although I keep hearing about players betting 10k sets so they must not be doing that badly since I think twice about toing to a $40 entry tournament and my household income is about 2x the national average.

Hang-the-nine, your post is revealing and can serve as the basis for finding a solution as can contributions from the many thoughtful comments posted here.

The original premise of this thread (one with merit), as I understand it (correct me where necessary Push&Pool) was that the world of pool would benefit from a grass roots, international, world-wide, all inclusive league that would build a base of play that would result in a popularity level that could fuel reality TV, sponsorship etc. that would pull professional level play with it.

macguy offered valid comment in terms of the need for there to be places to play. The need for family oriented, safe and welcoming places to play followed in the additional comments offered in the string. Golden flash made some good points in respect to the image of pool (maybe a little overstated from my point of view but valid when stripped of hyperbole). Cardigan kid’s statement that not everyone knows that there are professional players and the benefits of grass root development should be taken as good points added to the support of the original premise. Texdance also touched on some of the problems with league play and provided some useful comment. Unfortunately, the string almost became derailed but thankfully did not thanks to those that urged a return to a positive discussion and a lot of very good, very positive suggestions from a lot of sources.

I found Banks, Robin and Seabrook to be particularly positive in terms of adding to the other good comment.

Push&Pool, thanks for the topic as a catalyst for comment and thanks for the effort you have put in to keep it on topic.

Hang-the-nine you mention cost is not an issue. True to a point, cost is not THE issue but is an issue. Just as how any one of the many valid points made here not THE issue taken in isolation but each are an issue. Push&Pool started this thread with a premise that could be described by some as looking for a perfect solution in an imperfect world. If I was to take the best (of course only in my opinion and based only on my experience) of the suggestions offered and tried to tie them together in my perfect world. A world that includes grass roots play (I am a league player), an ability to play in an affordable, smoke free, stress free, safe and inviting environment many of these suggestions would support what I would find desirable.

Other suggestions, that I would not have necessarily thought of, would only add to my love of the game in a very positive way. I have been the beneficiary of very good players generously sharing their expertise with me to add to the enjoyment and understanding of the game. I would gladly pay this forward by giving of my time and my expertise to others entering the field.

The more one learns about the skill needed to play at the highest levels the more one can appreciate the true beauty and artistry of this sport and in doing so the fan base would expand exponentially to support the professional player.

Many years ago Cliff Thorburn, a Canadian snooker player and World Champion, achieved the first perfect game, a maximum break of 147, at a world snooker championship. I watched it on television many years ago and a, what I thought, to be a good player then commented that he could have done it also because each shot was quite easy. I didn’t agree but did not argue the point. Now I realize that it was a tremendous level of skill in moving the cue ball to where it needed to be was what made it look easy.

For professional pool to become a true spectator sport in North America the grass roots must engage and be educated. A lot of valid comment in terms of how that could be done appear here. Thanks again.

Jerry
 
As usual, lots of conjecture from people who have been playing for a long time. I agree with all of you on the merits of pool. What I disagree with many players on is how to go about fixing it.

I don't care how cool ESPN's coverage is or how much the payouts are, you are NOT going to get people who don't play pool to watch it on TV and you definitely are NOT going to get them to attend a tournament. At least, not long term. The subtleties of the game are too easily lost on people who haven't played much or at all. Sure, maybe the IPT drew some out and maybe The Color of Money drew some out but it will always be a flash in the pan. To get pool to really catch on it needs to be played at least a little. How many non-golfers do you really think watch it on TV or go to PGA events? (no, you can't count spouses or kids of golfers)

Not that long ago I got a buddy of mine to go play some pool and drink a few beers. We played 8 ball and 9 ball. He ended up liking 9 ball more but that may have just been because I hung the 9 a few times and he got some fun, easy wins. By the time we were done he said "Damn! That was fun. I wish I had gotten some lessons back when I had a table. I might not have practically given it away." That is what's wrong with pool right now.

As someone very new to pool, I feel like what is missing from it is a way to get people who might be curious about it past that first awkward stage. Someone scared to break or unable to make a decent bridge isn't always going to have the self-confidence to ask someone else or seek out lessons.

I think what pool needs are more "for fun" events. I see little charity golf tournaments all the time where people who barely know how to swing a club will come out and have a great time. They put weird putting challenges on different holes, have raffles and giveaways, etc. I think one way of getting pool into the minds of new players is to come up fun charity events that get new people to give it a try. Not only will this put a better face on pool in different communities but it will give people a safe place to try it out. If there is a decent instructor on hand to answer questions and offer up some free help then that's even better.

If I get asked to buy one more tub cookie dough or attend one more charity auction for a local school or youth group I swear my head is going to blow up. But if someone said they were having a charity pool tournament geared toward beginners and first-timer players I might actually sign up for that.
 
I think Private Pool Clubs would be a good start....

One thing I never hear anyone on here discuss is taking matters into your own hands to form a private billiard club...

Consider the cost analysis by 336 Robin,where a regular player is putting out $240-$320 a month to play in a pool hall. That does add up.

What if you had "the right" 15-20 guys willing to pony up a monthly stipend of $100/month. You'd need to rent a space, find a couple of decent tables on Craigslist, and then put a couple of pool tables in and keep it private. Members could surely donate some old stereo gear, maybe an old refrigerator, etc... BYO beverages, no more high priced beverages. Smoking or non-smoking, whatever is decided upon by the group...

The next step could be a traveling club-league with a sanctioning body, kind of like what the Europeans have... No handicaps, multiple games, multiple teams per club, etc...

What the hell am I thinking...? Not to sound overly pessimistic, but I really don't think this would work very well here in America. There are simply way too many bad apples and generally selfish personalities in the American pool scene to even consider something like this, unless the group were very, very tight knit.
 
One thing I never hear anyone on here discuss is taking matters into your own hands to form a private billiard club...

Consider the cost analysis by 336 Robin,where a regular player is putting out $240-$320 a month to play in a pool hall. That does add up.

What if you had "the right" 15-20 guys willing to pony up a monthly stipend of $100/month. You'd need to rent a space, find a couple of decent tables on Craigslist, and then put a couple of pool tables in and keep it private. Members could surely donate some old stereo gear, maybe an old refrigerator, etc... BYO beverages, no more high priced beverages. Smoking or non-smoking, whatever is decided upon by the group...

The next step could be a traveling club-league with a sanctioning body, kind of like what the Europeans have... No handicaps, multiple games, multiple teams per club, etc...

What the hell am I thinking...? Not to sound overly pessimistic, but I really don't think this would work very well here in America. There are simply way too many bad apples and generally selfish personalities in the American pool scene to even consider something like this, unless the group were very, very tight knit.

Rent
Utilities
Repairs
Tables
Fixtures
Furniture

$100/mo wouldn't even cover rent in many places.

Besides, what happens when 8(or more) people show up to play, 2 of which wanted to match up with each other?

I've thought about something similar, but just never seemed to make sense financially.
 
Not

If I get asked to buy one more tub cookie dough or attend one more charity auction for a local school or youth group I swear my head is going to blow up. But if someone said they were having a charity pool tournament geared toward beginners and first-timer players I might actually sign up for that.

It is a steep hill to climb but I enjoy reading ideas like this that are workable and who knows might grow quite fast if it gains a little traction.
 
Fun

As usual, lots of conjecture from people who have been playing for a long time. I agree with all of you on the merits of pool. What I disagree with many players on is how to go about fixing it.

I don't care how cool ESPN's coverage is or how much the payouts are, you are NOT going to get people who don't play pool to watch it on TV and you definitely are NOT going to get them to attend a tournament. At least, not long term. The subtleties of the game are too easily lost on people who haven't played much or at all. Sure, maybe the IPT drew some out and maybe The Color of Money drew some out but it will always be a flash in the pan. To get pool to really catch on it needs to be played at least a little. How many non-golfers do you really think watch it on TV or go to PGA events? (no, you can't count spouses or kids of golfers)

Not that long ago I got a buddy of mine to go play some pool and drink a few beers. We played 8 ball and 9 ball. He ended up liking 9 ball more but that may have just been because I hung the 9 a few times and he got some fun, easy wins. By the time we were done he said "Damn! That was fun. I wish I had gotten some lessons back when I had a table. I might not have practically given it away." That is what's wrong with pool right now.

As someone very new to pool, I feel like what is missing from it is a way to get people who might be curious about it past that first awkward stage. Someone scared to break or unable to make a decent bridge isn't always going to have the self-confidence to ask someone else or seek out lessons.

I think what pool needs are more "for fun" events. I see little charity golf tournaments all the time where people who barely know how to swing a club will come out and have a great time. They put weird putting challenges on different holes, have raffles and giveaways, etc. I think one way of getting pool into the minds of new players is to come up fun charity events that get new people to give it a try. Not only will this put a better face on pool in different communities but it will give people a safe place to try it out. If there is a decent instructor on hand to answer questions and offer up some free help then that's even better.

If I get asked to buy one more tub cookie dough or attend one more charity auction for a local school or youth group I swear my head is going to blow up. But if someone said they were having a charity pool tournament geared toward beginners and first-timer players I might actually sign up for that.

Floppage,
You said the key word....Fun. You know that all people really want is Fun and all the league play, tournaments, trade shows etc, etc are all a lot stuff but there is nothing like being down on the ball and knowing everything about how you are going to make that shot and then you do and you learn to move the cue ball perfectly when you do and for a lot of people like myself......its awesome and there is nothing like it that you can smoke, drink, buy or giveaway that will match it......to me its fun and I know how I do what I do.

Its my theory.....that if you make it Fun they will come....but you have to get the word out so Ive worked on that too.

My next book...The Pool Power System....I concentrated on an aiming method that is natural fun and easy to describe. It took me a long time to figure out how to tell people how I do what I do and have them be able to understand it.

But I know that people are what they are so I decided to set the book up so it can be used not only as a book but it could be printed up in magazine print one day and used as a way for Pool Rooms to put their STAMP on it and put it out in places where they hope to recruit new players from. In magazine form its going to be very affordable for them to do it. At this point my estimates are that one pool player that practices is worth about 1500 dollars a year to a room owner.

For that amount of money he could buy my books and distribute them with his STAMP on it in 10 different places once a month, several copies each place all 12 months of the year. Places like tire shops, medical centers and waiting lobby and message is....that Pool is fun. Fun occurs when people understand what they are supposed to do from the onset and I try to make things that way.

I try to make things FUN and I try to give what I call the real version not some way that is complicated, a new player cant deal with that right off the bat and whats more is the system I have is perfectly understandable to anyone....no tech support needed and its a system that lends itself perfectly to mastery. Its all I use and I play pretty good. I run out if you leave me shot so the material works

I am waiting for the last proofs now. This is the first book of two. The Pool Power Shot System....then The Flight of the Cue Ball for aiming with English. I have a good bit of it written now but will be working on it hopefully being done by summer. I run a business and I play pool.

The reason I spilled the beans on this in this thread is:

If you love pool, you do what you can. I promise you someone will find something wrong with whatever you do and it may be a really good friend. So at a point you throw out there what you have and let the chips fall where they may. I am taking a shot at it and at least there will be one product that has a chance at being two things...Book....and Room Advertisement...way to create new players for those that want to.

Its all I know to do. I'm not in the mood to open a Pool Room right now. I just retired I dont want anymore responsibility not even league play. Im like anyone else....

I just want to have Fun. Fun is where it at. Find that, sell that, I have to think its a winner!
 
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Rent
Utilities
Repairs
Tables
Fixtures
Furniture

$100/mo wouldn't even cover rent in many places.

Besides, what happens when 8(or more) people show up to play, 2 of which wanted to match up with each other?

I've thought about something similar, but just never seemed to make sense financially.

Good point... And I never said it would be easy...

But, it all depends on the space, how many members join, what skill sets those members have, maybe incorporate an initiation fee, etc...

I was a member of such a club in Germany and it was AWESOME.

Lucky for me, there are a plethora of pool halls in my area, all of which stay pretty busy... no fear of losing places to play. However, for those die hard players out there who are running out of non-bar places to play, and who don't have enough room to put a table in their house... this may become a viable option.

For that matter, you could even rent a storage unit big enough to set up a table and play at the storage facility. LOL! Get four guys together and rent a garage somewhere...

If pool halls continue to fade away in much of the country, at some point people will need to get creative.
 
Good point... And I never said it would be easy...

But, it all depends on the space, how many members join, what skill sets those members have, maybe incorporate an initiation fee, etc...

I was a member of such a club in Germany and it was AWESOME.

Lucky for me, there are a plethora of pool halls in my area, all of which stay pretty busy... no fear of losing places to play. However, for those die hard players out there who are running out of non-bar places to play, and who don't have enough room to put a table in their house... this may become a viable option.

For that matter, you could even rent a storage unit big enough to set up a table and play at the storage facility. LOL! Get four guys together and rent a garage somewhere...

If pool halls continue to fade away in much of the country, at some point people will need to get creative.

Jaetee,
You are right we will have to be creative. Im looking at building an out building and when I was doing it of course I want a table in it. So I start designing and I may have come up with a cheap alternative for a building.

I like those Carolina Carports buildings. The are pretty cheap to throw up lots of space. If I were to put me several tables in....heat and air....well all the pool I would need thats for sure.
 
Hang-the-nine, your post is revealing and can serve as the basis for finding a solution as can contributions from the many thoughtful comments posted here.

The original premise of this thread (one with merit), as I understand it (correct me where necessary Push&Pool) was that the world of pool would benefit from a grass roots, international, world-wide, all inclusive league that would build a base of play that would result in a popularity level that could fuel reality TV, sponsorship etc. that would pull professional level play with it.

macguy offered valid comment in terms of the need for there to be places to play. The need for family oriented, safe and welcoming places to play followed in the additional comments offered in the string. Golden flash made some good points in respect to the image of pool (maybe a little overstated from my point of view but valid when stripped of hyperbole). Cardigan kid’s statement that not everyone knows that there are professional players and the benefits of grass root development should be taken as good points added to the support of the original premise. Texdance also touched on some of the problems with league play and provided some useful comment. Unfortunately, the string almost became derailed but thankfully did not thanks to those that urged a return to a positive discussion and a lot of very good, very positive suggestions from a lot of sources.

I found Banks, Robin and Seabrook to be particularly positive in terms of adding to the other good comment.

Push&Pool, thanks for the topic as a catalyst for comment and thanks for the effort you have put in to keep it on topic.

Hang-the-nine you mention cost is not an issue. True to a point, cost is not THE issue but is an issue. Just as how any one of the many valid points made here not THE issue taken in isolation but each are an issue. Push&Pool started this thread with a premise that could be described by some as looking for a perfect solution in an imperfect world. If I was to take the best (of course only in my opinion and based only on my experience) of the suggestions offered and tried to tie them together in my perfect world. A world that includes grass roots play (I am a league player), an ability to play in an affordable, smoke free, stress free, safe and inviting environment many of these suggestions would support what I would find desirable.

Other suggestions, that I would not have necessarily thought of, would only add to my love of the game in a very positive way. I have been the beneficiary of very good players generously sharing their expertise with me to add to the enjoyment and understanding of the game. I would gladly pay this forward by giving of my time and my expertise to others entering the field.

The more one learns about the skill needed to play at the highest levels the more one can appreciate the true beauty and artistry of this sport and in doing so the fan base would expand exponentially to support the professional player.

Many years ago Cliff Thorburn, a Canadian snooker player and World Champion, achieved the first perfect game, a maximum break of 147, at a world snooker championship. I watched it on television many years ago and a, what I thought, to be a good player then commented that he could have done it also because each shot was quite easy. I didn’t agree but did not argue the point. Now I realize that it was a tremendous level of skill in moving the cue ball to where it needed to be was what made it look easy.

For professional pool to become a true spectator sport in North America the grass roots must engage and be educated. A lot of valid comment in terms of how that could be done appear here. Thanks again.

Jerry

Thanks for the support :) My logic is mostly going in the direction that if we help create huge numbers of low level and casual players, a certain portion of those has to become more interested, educated, and eventually switch to more serious pool and/or spectating. Law of probability never lies.
 
Jaetee,
You are right we will have to be creative. Im looking at building an out building and when I was doing it of course I want a table in it. So I start designing and I may have come up with a cheap alternative for a building.

I like those Carolina Carports buildings. The are pretty cheap to throw up lots of space. If I were to put me several tables in....heat and air....well all the pool I would need thats for sure.

Right on... ;)

I remember reading in one of Jay Helfert's posts from last year that at some point in his past he used to rent a Garage space where he had a table set up for practice and for playing with close friends...

Where there's a will, there's a way... And while me talking about a "Private Billiards Club" has a very formal sound, it can be as simple as a group of friends sharing assets.... Guy #1 has a spare garage or industrial space somewhere, guy number 2 has a table that wife wants out of the house, guy #3 has a spare stereo he doesn't need anymore, etc.... Next thing you know, you have the start of an informal billiards club...
 
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