Pool Streams. Help US Understand them

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Shawn Armstrong said:
Not sure I'm following what you're saying. But I will tell you that about 95% of stream issues occur during host to client transfer. I could describe multiple scenarios, but basically, the farther the data has to travel, the more likely it is that an error will occur. Short run between a camera to the PC doing the upload? Unlikely. The local internet provider you're uploading the file to? Unlikely. Now, who's hosting the server that will distribute your content? That's a biggie. And where are you downloading from? That's the other biggie.
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I don't know how to be more clear. And yes, I work in the field and was previously cisco certified. If there were buffering issues, constant freezing, then it's likely that it could be any of the connections between host and client. Packet loss is the least likely cause for bad quality in this situation. It is a possible cause for sure, but unlikely. Especially when everyone viewing the stream is experiencing the same bad quality.

If the host location's upload speed isn't sufficient to stream at high quality, then the only way to avoid the stream freezing or not working at all is to stream with lower quality. That's the most likely reason the quality isn't great, given host locations rarely have decent connections that aren't bogged down by other traffic.

I've watched streams from across the world, such as eSports streams, that are great quality, and then pool streams seem to vary based on the host location, whether it's in close proximity to me or not. This isn't a UDP issue.
 
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Skippy27 said:
I apologize if this can be found using the search feature of the forum but I was not able to find a listing of Subject Matter Experts utilizing such. I was hoping you could point me in that direction as you appear to be very knowledgeable and pleasant to work with.

No? So then maybe you can share with all of us whom it is by your definition of "resource" that may speak on what topics related to pool here without it being considered "lipping off" by "experts" such as yourself that dickishly patrol the forums in search of such fragrant fouls of knowledge? We can then get that listing "stickied" for all new comers and hopefully make your job here easier.

Should we report all of those fouls to you so that you may reprimand them with your stern and yet utterly delightful personality? Or should we simply ignore them, provide the proper information and move on about our lives without displaying our lack of ability in working well with others in a social environment?
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You should stay out of the sun with skin that thin.

Dave
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
I said I was done with the thread.

I will make one statement. You're Cisco certified. That's fantastic. I'm field certified, in regards to diagnosing impairments at the home computer. I consulted almost every single internet service provider in the world, did presentations in Belgium, Germany, Puerto Rico, Shanghai, Beijing, and all over North and South America. I still consult with Bell Canada and their Fibe program on an as-need basis, and I don't even work in the industry anymore.

Most errors at the home internet level are physical plant errors that cause a packet to be corrupted or lost. I cannot be more clear on that.

I recorded a video stream yesterday using WireShark. Seems that uStream is using a TCP protocol for their content. I shouldn't suffer any packet loss due to TCP/IP, correct....you know, retransmits and all. Correct? The video stream was spotty and freezing. Want to guess what the issue was? QoS settings in the router. Best effort technology. My data was competing with each other, with no priorities set for the different port numbers. Once I set the ports and QoS up correctly, what do you think happened? Their upload speed didn't change one bit. My video stream got MUCH cleaner.

It's Skippy and Railbird's show, from here on.
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Calm down bro, no one is questioning your credentials. You aren't the only one qualified to assess the issue.

Shawn Armstrong said:
Most errors at the home internet level are physical plant errors that cause a packet to be corrupted or lost. I cannot be more clear on that.
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The problem is you are already assuming the issue is at the home network level, without even considering the glaring issues that exist at most host locations. You haven't even addressed my points at all. It's like if someone doesn't agree with you, they must be beneath you. Get over yourself. I made a very valid point, twice, and all you can come back with is that 95% of the time it's the home network, which is far from true.

If you read Fast Lenny's posts on the previous page, an actual streamer, he even says that a lot of the time he is forced to stream in lower quality because of the host location. If you are experiencing bad quality from pool streams, and no other streams, it seems to reason that it isn't an issue with your network. Reiterating this, yet again.
 
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Shawn Armstrong said:
I'm going to bow out, guys. Between Railbird telling me to chill, and Skippy seeming to have all your answers, you guys are in good hands.

The overwhelming answer is that it's your upstream, stream providers. That doesn't explain why only some of your users have problems, and others are fine....but sooner or later, they may get on the right track.

90% of computer issues lay somewhere between the chair and the keyboard.
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Users "having problems" refers to not being able to get the stream to run consistently and reliably, without freezing and other errors. That's a completely different issue than users experiencing less than optimal quality, but stream is otherwise running problem-free.

I was referring to the quality issue, which is what you first pointed out was due to UDP packet loss at the client end.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Ok. Explain the technologies involved in getting the IP signal to the customer's device. Cover cable modems, DSL and FTTH. Once you do that, we can talk shop.

Go.
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How about you address my points without turning this in to a dick measuring contest? I'm clearly not going to take the time to cover all of that in a post on azbilliards just to convince you I know what I'm talking about. You were not subjected to such a test before becoming a self-proclaimed expert here, so get off the high horse.
 
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Shawn Armstrong said:
The issues you have mentioned...if upstream related...would affect ALL USERS of the stream. That means 100% failure.

The fact that very few streams I've encountered have had 100% failure rate to delivery leads me in another direction than upstream. But again, I leave it to you and Skippy.

You know what you're talking about. There...feel better?
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This is like talking to a brick wall. Do you even read my posts? I guess you know everything, so there's no need to actually read and comprehend anything.

For the last time, stream "failure" and issues with the the consistency and reliability of the stream, such as buffering and connectivity issues, and other errors, are not what I'm referring to.

The issue at the beginning of this thread was about the stream QUALITY, which normally is affecting all users, when a specific pool stream has shitty quality. You claimed it was more than likely due to UDP packet loss causing degradation. I am saying that although that's a possible cause, it's very unlikely. The host locations generally have shitty/congested connections that force streamers to lower the quality that they stream at, to avoid the above connectivity and buffering issues. That is the most likely reason for any quality issues.
 
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Shawn Armstrong said:
Time for more crayon....must be a full moon.

The OP complained about stream quality. I merely stated that most often than not, the stream isn't to blame for a user getting poor quality. Otherwise, you would have a backlash of people saying that the stream didn't work. That isn't the case. Roughly 5-10% of people have stream issues. That means that the problem isn't in the delivery of the stream to EVERYONE. It's a problem with the delivery of the stream to THEM.

All yours. I'm tired of talking to a pole.
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Sigh, please go back and read the OP's post. It explicitly states that AccuStats even said that from certain locations they have quality issues. This means EVERYONE experiences those quality issues, and it's a result of the host location's connection. You are either completely making up this "5-10%" or you are again mistaking two separate and different issues as one.
 
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