Poolgame: Kill the King

Pin said:
Interesting. If you had to call balls to sabotage, you'd need a punishment for missing them. Maybe 'if you don't hit all the balls you call, nothing gets sabotaged'? Or maybe you can only call one ball (but the current rule incentivises interesting caroms, which is good). Maybe you can call two balls?

I think I agree about using the saboteur as CB, but we could test the alternative too, to see how it works.

Personally, I like the 'hit nothing' rule. The game is as much about positioning and strategy as shot-making, and we aren't using the hit-nothing roll shot much, so far...
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Agree with everything! And the "if you dont hit everything you call, nothing is sabotaged" is great. Because that creates a risk-reward thing. You cant just call 3-4 balls. You got to be carefull. And agree on the rolls. So far they're rare.
Pin said:
Hah, I've felt on the back foot too, with my 10 and 11 very exposed, so it works both ways!

I use the 10 to bump your king toward the long rail: https://pad.chalkysticks.com/8fa41
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Hope I calculated the paths right:
23793.png

Results in this position: https://pad.chalkysticks.com/6e856
 
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Sorry for the long delay, I've been very busy with work.

Alternatively, you could interpret it as me not being able to figure out what to do now :)

I tried to play a chess-style gambit by sacrificing my 12-ball in return for your 3 and putting your king in trouble, but I think because it's always possible to get oneself out of trouble, I came off worst (by losing my last king-killer)

I recruit the 5. https://pad.chalkysticks.com/a88df
 
No worries! Take the time you need for real life stuff.

Yeah it'll be interesting how this endgame pans out. Is it really easy for a king to stay safe? I've got a bit more value in balls and is my assassin still on the table? (Who knows 😏) Will it be easy for me to convert a material advantage to a win? Then again you got the saboteur.. Could a stalemate happen? And more important: is it fun and exciting to play?

Really would like to test it on the table. I'm asking around for people who are willing to try this.

Nice recruit, really awkward. So my next shot: https://pad.chalkysticks.com/979ac
979ac.png
 
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Aha, I got away with it! (Possibly!)

The 13 was intended to be positioned for a nearly-frozen-combination-bank on your king into the corner pocket - so shooting my 15 into the 13 should pocket your king - if I've been accurate enough setting it up and if I've judged throw correctly: https://pad.chalkysticks.com/59f1e

If I miss the bank, you have an open shot on my king, and your 5 might even be the assassin. So the game might be won or lost on whether the bank works.

It occurs to me now though: If we were actually playing a real game though, you'd have seen me fine-tuning the position of the 13 when I placed it, so the element of surprise(?) might have been lost...
[Edited for my bad wording!]
 
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Pin said:
Aha, I got away with it! (Possibly!)

The 13 was intended to be positioned for a nearly-frozen-combination-bank on your king into the corner pocket - so shooting my 15 into the 13 should pocket your king - if I've been accurate enough setting it up and if I've judged throw correctly: https://pad.chalkysticks.com/59f1e

If I miss the bank, you have an open shot on my king, and your 5 might even be the assassin. So the game might be won or lost on whether the bank works.

It occurs to me now though: If we were actually playing a real game though, you'd have seen me fine-tuning the position of the 13 when I placed it, so the element of surprise(?) might have been lost...
[Edited for my bad wording!]
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Yeah the 5 is my assassin, and a shot like that I would make (most of the time).

So that concludes the game! Unfortunately, kind of. But I think it's ready for real world testing.

Some thoughts:
- I liked only placing on 1 half. It makes recruitment a bit less super good. On the other hand you'll get more of a split table. I safely stay on my side and you at yours. Though that dissolves when all the recruits are on the table.
- think 10 points might even be better, than 11
- in general I enjoyed it! Just before we began I wondered "do I feel like playing again?" but as soon as we started placing I was having fun
- balls not coming back seems like the way to go
- really like the idea of calling with the saboteur

Im afraid the secrecy of the assassin is kind of pointless. It might be quite easy to deduct which one it is. And in general I'd say it's smart choose a higher number. Just assume any ball is the assassin is the way to go.

Regarding tactics it feels like there's a lot to discover. But I didnt really found it, except for the recruitment shenanigans.
 
DaWizard said:
Some thoughts:
- I liked only placing on 1 half. It makes recruitment a bit less super good. On the other hand you'll get more of a split table. I safely stay on my side and you at yours. Though that dissolves when all the recruits are on the table.
- think 10 points might even be better, than 11
- in general I enjoyed it! Just before we began I wondered "do I feel like playing again?" but as soon as we started placing I was having fun
- balls not coming back seems like the way to go
- really like the idea of calling with the saboteur
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I agree with you on all those points.

One idea I had was that maybe the starting positions and/or new recruits should have to be behind the head/foot spot. It would have to be play-tested to see whether it worked though.

Another idea is players can add a certain number of balls, instead of points. There could be value in holding back a high-value ball (so it can't be potted, and can be introduced later with more impact). Allowing, say, 4 balls would be simpler than working out points.

DaWizard said:
Im afraid the secrecy of the assassin is kind of pointless. It might be quite easy to deduct which one it is. And in general I'd say it's smart choose a higher number. Just assume any ball is the assassin is the way to go.
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I like the secrecy. In practice, I was usually assuming any ball was the assassin. But if nothing else, secrecy adds a feeling of doubt and an extra layer of interest.
If the tactics developed to make it useful to bluff (by trying to make the other person believe a particular ball was your assassin), it would be a very good feature to the game. I don't know what the game would need for that to happen though.

DaWizard said:
Regarding tactics it feels like there's a lot to discover. But I didnt really found it, except for the recruitment shenanigans.
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At the moment, it feels like it's usually possible to put the opponent's king in difficulty on any given shot. And it's usually possible to get him out of difficulty with one shot too. That makes it hard to have tactics that plan several shots ahead.

It's possible that restricting the pockets you can use to kill (capture?) particular balls might help (e.g., pot the opponent's balls in your side of the table's corner pockets, or your corners and the middle pockets).

I think there are still a lot of angles to be explored, and real-world testing would help. But I think you've got an interesting game on your hands.
 
The points I really like, tbh. I think it creates several nice and sometimes difficult choices. Also being able to recorder the recruits at the Costa of 1 is fun. With 10 points every choice becomes important. This could be fun for the more experienced player, but might be a deterrent to new players. A break is spectaculair, a fun no brainer opener (al though there's a lot of skill involved) and who knows you get lucky! All those aspects are fun.

Here every choice is difficult and a potential mistake. That is not fun to noobs. Then again I must say I liked doing it. It has to be done 20x in real life and see what 'meta' strategy arises.

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The Assassin needs something. Not sure what. The secrecy is fun, but we just assume they're all assassins and if you take one shot at the King it's identity revealed. From then on you just have 2 King slayers.

Speaking of "Kingslayer" would you have a better name? Or does it sound right in English?

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Restricting pockets. Hmm that rule should be really fun/elegant to justify added complexity.
 
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Im finishing the Dutch rules and try to recruit someone willing to try it. I got a gorillapod and hope I can shoot some footage. Hope it looks kinda all right and hope I don't play like a wet newspaper, as we say in Holland 😄
 
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DaWizard said:
The Assassin needs something. Not sure what. The secrecy is fun, but we just assume they're all assassins and if you take one shot at the King it's identity revealed. From then on you just have 2 King slayers.
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But if you could deliberately shoot at the king and miss, using a ball that wasn't your kingslayer, and then the other guy leaves his king somewhere your real kingslayer can pocket it... you would feel like you had been very clever!
 
DaWizard said:
Here every choice is difficult and a potential mistake. That is not fun to noobs. Then again I must say I liked doing it. It has to be done 20x in real life and see what 'meta' strategy arises.
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Fair enough. I liked doing it too, and the points do give you more to think about.
 
Another go trying some alternative rules? Say, you can only make balls in the corner pockets on your side of the table, or the middle?
 
Pin said:
Another go trying some alternative rules? Say, you can only make balls in the corner pockets on your side of the table, or the middle?
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Yes 👍
Im away for a week though. Back on monday 8th. Got my phone but chalky is difficult on phone.

We could also try your rule with the super simple variant. Super simple: 5 balls, 1 to 5. The 2 is kingslayer and 5 is King. No saboteur or assassin by default, but if you want either it's possible. At setup you setup all 5 balls, no reservists.

Maybe set up anywhere on table? Not on just one half?

And id say middle pockets are game for us both?
 
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I was thinking about the 8 in relation to the assassin. Perhaps if you pot the 8 (with your assassin?) you can reassign the role to any other ball. But that doesnt change "I just assume any ball is the assassin" strategy.

Then again.. Maybe first test the assassin in real life a dozen times to see how it plays out.
 
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