Pool's Problem

OTLB

OTLB

Banned
I think the real reason pool is dying is because there are not alot of pool players coming up. By this I mean we need young players. If young people are not playing now they will never play later. Need to get them hooked when they are young. So I think rooms IF possible should consider having a "Teen night only" like on a Friday night. I use to average at least 8 people per table when I did this. I gave them free popcorn and free hotdogs and they could play from 6-11 for $8. Also had video games there for them like Play Station, should have at least 3 of them now. Kids don't like to go places and not be able to do something they are good at, so the game systems are really attractive. Once they start talking about its easy to get a crowd. The jukebox will go all night and so will your soda and candy bars. Its is a bit of a hassle dealing with them but if we don't who will.

Whats nice though is when you say good nite to them and they say the same and add your name. Still young enough to teach them respect. Years later I see alot of these young men and they always thank me for having them in my pool room and how much fun they had. Whats really funny is that basically they all suck at pool but I also had a Billiard and Snooker 6 x12 that they loved playing. I had little blackboards at each table so it was like playing King of the hill and you signed up to play the winner.

Even had some of them come in and clean the room when they didn't have money. I would let them play instead of them oweing me the money because then they might not come back.

Really can't see the game lasting unless we have our young guys and gals playing. Just look at our pro competition now we are being dominated. If the kids can do something else besides pool they will have fun. I know it becomes a teen center but if you have 50 kids in there spending some money is that bad. Thats what I am doing when I open my next room.
I also issued them ID badges and gave them a free soda every 4th visit and a free nite evry 8 th time. I told them if anyone pissed me off I would deduct one visit. Needles to say I NEVER had to, they loved coming in and asking me how close they were etc. Let them play loud music and then you only have to listen to that and not them.

just my 2 cents
 
Fatboy has a good point, but in the latest ISSUE of the Regional Newspaper the BREAK they had coverage of the Colorado Jr. State Champions. None were over 35.
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Seriously where can a 7-12 y/o play Pool, as there are no tables at the boys clubs, as there are no Boys Clubs.
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OTLB said:
I think the real reason pool is dying is because there are not alot of pool players coming up. ...
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Pool isn't dying - pool rooms are.
Pool is alive and well in many homes around the globe.
Owners that can creatively market their rooms stand a good chance of staying profitable.
 
I'm not a poolroom owner. I'm not a business owner of anykind. But I'm still observant. I've been going to my local poolroom for over 12 years now. Our poolroom runs poker nearly everyday of the week. There are a great number of people that show up to play cards that never shoot a rack of pool. When the tournaments start...the pool room dies. When cards are over...they leave. We only have one tournament night a week, and no leagues of any kind. No inhouse straight pool, no one pocket, no 8-ball or 9-ball...TAP...APA...nothing. We have a "ladies night" although it's not even remotely advertised or known. The real drawback is there's nothing else to do BUT shoot pool. No dartboards, no shuffleboard, no games to speak of except a Megatouch and a Golden Tee. Truth is...when I'm done with pool...there's really nothing left to do but leave. I don't understand why they don't do anything to ramp up business. The room's a ghost town from opening until evening time. The fact the room is full of smokers is a huge drawback for a lot of people...and because of the card playing, the gambling on pool, and the smoking and excessive swearing...I'm sure the game isn't on most parents list of things to get their kids involved in. I can definitely see how only the most astute room owners are going to be able to keep afloat, especially in this economy.
 
As times change so do people. In the Northeast we use to have Duckpin bowling, when the kids started playing video games they stopped sat morning bowling, its wasn't many years later that the bowling leagues went from 2 shifts to 1 shift. Then they went to 4 man teams, then they went to 3 man teams, then it was over. Same thing happening now in BIG Pin bowling. So many bowling alleys going out of business, its because there are not enough youth bowling leagues and any bowling alley manager will tell you that. Pool is not different, If the rooms don't start catering to young people there will be no rooms down the road to speak of or players.. Don't we all remember how cool it was to say when we were young that we played in the pool hall. Later in life we still like it and buy a table for the home. Just because there are tables in more homes now than ever wouldn't you think we would be producing superstar pool players. Players come from rooms and without pool rooms this game is DEAD. Everyone might as well play baseball in the backyard if there were no stadiums. Just look at baseball, still going strong, answer is easy. Kids are still playing it.
 
Pool's problem is bars with pool tables.

Well.....pool's problem is really the combined IQ of the industry doesn't meet the minimum balance.
 
My take on all of this is that poolrooms would be doing themselves a favor if they chipped in and bought some cheaper decent tables and put up teen only rooms so teens could play free or cheap and learn the game, plus be with their friends. This would help get them introduced in a more serious fashion than they can when they have to pay so much more these days for hourly play. Plus the idea of getting them the hell out of the rooms I want to play in and take their cRAP music with them would bring me back into the rooms they have taken over on the weekends. I don't mind spending money playing for hours on good tables. But when I have to put up with their BS and lack of pool etiquette, I stay home or go elsewhaere.

I learned playing in a youth room at the local church every Friday and Saturday night. The teen room was also unlocked and pretty much unchaperoned every day after school as well from 3pm-7pm and kept my friends and myself out of trouble. I would be willing to bet every one of my old highschool friends that played at that room is still an avid player even today in their 50s. We didn't even have a chaperone on the weekends. We respected the trust of running our own place. I do have to admit, having a GC in that room and ping pong table kept competitive juices flowing.
 
Until pool room owners take over the sport....pool will never have a quality image.

Until pool room owners take over the sport....you will never have a youth program.

Without a youth program our sport can not win. It will be dominated by a small underculture that it is today.

How many neighborhoods have people leave their house with a golf bag? How many have people who leave with their pool cue?

What is the socio-economic background of those leaving with golf bags....as compared to those leaving with pool cues?

A good visual....to summarize the above question's answer is.......subdivision versus trailer court.

And we pool room owners, as keepers of the sport.....are so afraid to lose our trailer trash....we are so afraid of losing our broke customers.....that keep us from the having the profitability needed to advance the sport.....that we will not make an effort to attrack the great middle/upper middle class.

Little league baseball....basketball....football....soccer.....golf.....tennis....bowling....all of em.....have youth programs.

Pool does not.

The vast majority of 'new' people to competitive pool comes from a 21 yr old or older 'beginning' at your local bar. He/she is immediately 'dumbed down'.....by ignorant rules/ethics/nonsense....and our game continues to turn in it's unending viscious circle fueled by the continued recruitment of uneducated trash.

There is nothing wrong with our game. There is much wrong with the people who 'run' the game.
 
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My friend had (2) Pool rooms in Arizona, and also (2) Bars that were Pool orientated. All were sold, the the NEW Owners either closed the rooms, or the Bar changed their focus.

Dave success was because all were operated with the Pool Focus to the recreational player, and or league player who were spenders. As he said my BAR were in the Booze Biz, and pool was the Second Focus!

Here in the Valley of the SUN, aka Phoenix Arizona there seem to be a Bar with a Pool Table or up to 3-4 Pool Tables on every corner.

I personally do not understand how all these Bar Owner survive, and there seems to be a constant flow of Name Changes, and or OWNERS.

In the last year we have LOST 3-5 Major Pool Rooms, and Pool Bars, and I think part of the cause is poor management, or just a poor business plan.

Now another Pool Room is getting ready to open with a Mix of Bar Boxes, and Big Tables, and I hear it will be open 24 HOURS a DAY. It will serve no Alcohol, but be like a Express Bar/Ice Cream Place. Time will tell if this business plan is successful. I understand they will have some Diamond Tables.
 
The bars 'win' because the pool room owners allow them to win.

The pool room owners will not do what it takes to win.

Our collective IQ is very low.
 
A room without alcohol is not the way to go.

If you want people with money as customers....middle to upper/middle class adults....you need alcohol.

Nothing wrong with having a 'kid' area/room also.

But....you MUST run your room like a bowling alley.....with in-house leagues 5 nights per week....or you will fail eventually.

And, without alcohol, you will not have successful leagues.

Pool room owners MUST take over league play to win.

They MUST create a 'pool room only' league....that is the largest in the country.....with the largest prize money.

They MUST drive pool out of bars and into the pool room.

Add a national 'pool room only' youth program....and you have a formula for long term success.

Our equipment kills us. It is so small, that it fits in a bar. A bowling alley doesn't. A golf course doesn't. A tennis court doesn't.

And, rather than fight, we allow bars to run the sport. Bars that simply use pool to sell alcohol.

Pool must be supported by alcohol....not run by it.

Pool must be run as a sport....not as a means to just sell alcohol....even though it must be a player in the equation.

Does golf sell alcohol? Yes. Does alcohol run the sport of golf? No

Does bowling sell alcohol? Yes. Does alcohol run the sport of bowling? No
 
Many municipalities have laws regarding where and when a minor can be in a place that serves alcohol. If a pool room caters to kids they many times must forfeit alcohol; and in some places must forfeit smoking. If they want to make money, they MUST serve alcohol. There is the Catch-22 of just one problem. Players want 9 foot tables but 9 foot tables raises our cost per person. Players want to play based on pool rates, the cheaper the better. There is Catch-22 (part 2). It keeps going on. Many players want you to stock every cue in the world for them to try out before they buy....then go on Ebay and want you to match that cue price and on top of it take in 3 crappy cues on trade. When you refuse......they buy on Ebay and tell everyone else what an ass you are. Pool has numerous issues that are bringing it down. High rent is the main one. High insurance too. I am now labeled high risk for fire insurance because we allow smoking. My choice is to ban smoking...then watch my regulars remark about how I run my business or my choice is to raise the rates to cover an additional 10k in insurance and listen to them remark about how rich I am getting. Pool has 1001 issues to address. The sport will have to be changed a lot before a new business model is profitable.
 
wallets said:
Until pool room owners take over the sport....pool will never have a quality image.

Until pool room owners take over the sport....you will never have a youth program.

Without a youth program our sport can not win. It will be dominated by a small underculture that it is today.

How many neighborhoods have people leave their house with a golf bag? How many have people who leave with their pool cue?

What is the socio-economic background of those leaving with golf bags....as compared to those leaving with pool cues?

A good visual....to summarize the above question's answer is.......subdivision versus trailer court.

And we pool room owners, as keepers of the sport.....are so afraid to lose our trailer trash....we are so afraid of losing our broke customers.....that keep us from the having the profitability needed to advance the sport.....that we will not make an effort to attrack the great middle/upper middle class.

Little league baseball....basketball....football....soccer.....golf.....tennis....bowling....all of em.....have youth programs.

Pool does not.

The vast majority of 'new' people to competitive pool comes from a 21 yr old or older 'beginning' at your local bar. He/she is immediately 'dumbed down'.....by ignorant rules/ethics/nonsense....and our game continues to turn in it's unending viscious circle fueled by the continued recruitment of uneducated trash.

There is nothing wrong with our game. There is much wrong with the people who 'run' the game.
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:frown: Hmmm, sounds to me like you don't like pool players. After all we are a bunch of dumb, uneducated trailer trash (do modular and pre-fabbed homes and McMansions count too?).

Your place must really be awesome, but I'm sure my IQ and social-economical status wouldn't allow me in the doors. Do you need a pedigree or blue blood too? If you do allow us trash in, are there any restrictions on what kind of equipment we can use? Only high end stuff right? No cheap production cues? No generic cases, just the fancy tooled and carved cases? And I assume you have valet parking and coat check? You must really be raking in the dough if you only allow RICH, EDUCATED people in your place.

Glad to know you have found the secret to pool's problems! Education and money? Is that what you feel the secret is to life too? Sorry to disagree with you, but I know a lot of "poor, uneducated people" that are very happy, and come to think of it, I think a few of them even live in *gasp* TRAILER houses. While they may not have all the material things in their life that they'd like, they are loved and loving and are appreciative of what they do have and they are able to find joy and fulfillment in the world around them.

On a side note, does anybody know how many pro/world class players have degrees and higher education and/or what kind of professional background they come from? I have no idea because I'm too stupid and poor to figure it out, but maybe somebody else does? I remember seeing a thread about previous occupations and professions of some of the top players but I can't find it right now.
 
I've never liked the propensity for ignorance to push back against intelligence.

The best quality a human being has is the drive to constantly improve themselves, to never be satisfied with the status quo.... why would you sit here working against that? Most "smart", "educated", and "rich" people I know are all working towards getting smarter, more educated, or more rich throughout their lives, instead of bad-mouthing those that are smarter, more-educated or richer than themselves.

This country(USA) is in terrible conditions for that, the population not wanting to put in the work through education to get the jobs that it needs to keep America ahead, instead begging for mindless manufacturing jobs to come back even though it would put most businesses out of business if they had to pay American wages on everything they bought and used.

I suppose I'm now off-topic, but I'd like to say I would LOVE billiards to be more accepted by "mainstream" america, instead of those being proud of their own ignorance.
 
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MacGyver said:
I've never liked the propensity for ignorance to push back against intelligence.

The best quality a human being has is the drive to constantly improve themselves, to never be satisfied with the status quo.... why would you sit here working against that? Most "smart", "educated", and "rich" people I know are all working towards getting smarter, more educated, or more rich throughout their lives, instead of bad-mouthing those that are smarter, more-educated or richer than themselves.

This country(USA) is in terrible conditions for that, the population not wanting to put in the work through education to get the jobs that it needs to keep America ahead, instead begging for mindless manufacturing jobs to come back even though it would put most businesses out of business if they had to pay American wages on everything they bought and used.

I suppose I'm now off-topic, but I'd like to say I would LOVE billiards to be more accepted by "mainstream" america, instead of those being proud of their own ignorance.
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So you're implying that I'm ignorant because I spoke out about this gentleman's generalization that all pool players are poor, stupid trailer trash? WOW! Human beings never cease to amaze me.

Have a good day!
 
Seems like you 'identify' with the group....the dominant group....that pool attracts. And it's that group that keeps pool in the underworld.....and keeps it from being a viable business.

If the shoe fits wear it.

By your comments the odds are very high that you aren't a room owner.

Yet, think you know something about the subject.

If others of your kind find this thread....they will also feel like they have something to offer.

Talk among yourselves all you want.

Just stay out of the board room. It will take a higher quality individual to make pool a legitimate business.
 
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Closest thing we have to a youth program is two high school billiard teams that we charge half price pool to.
 
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