Popped seams

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WestElder

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I have a new $4000 9' pool table with 1" slate. It's in my basement on a carpet on top of a cement floor. I keep the humidity and temperature within the range of normal household settings. The table has had only light use, but both of the seams have popped already. The first one happened within days of being installed, and the other one less than a week after they came back out and fixed it. I don't want to mention the brand of the table at this point, but it is a well-respected name. On the other hand, if knowing that is important to get a reasonable explanation, I would be willing to share that. The dealer says this is pretty rare, and I'm inclined to believe him. At this point, I expect him to make good on the warrranty and quality I would expect of the installation. Can anyone explain why this would happen with a new table?

Dave
 
WestElder said:
I have a new $4000 9' pool table with 1" slate. It's in my basement on a carpet on top of a cement floor. I keep the humidity and temperature within the range of normal household settings. The table has had only light use, but both of the seams have popped already. The first one happened within days of being installed, and the other one less than a week after they came back out and fixed it. I don't want to mention the brand of the table at this point, but it is a well-respected name. On the other hand, if knowing that is important to get a reasonable explanation, I would be willing to share that. The dealer says this is pretty rare, and I'm inclined to believe him. At this point, I expect him to make good on the warrranty and quality I would expect of the installation. Can anyone explain why this would happen with a new table?

Dave
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Did anyone stand on the table once it was put up to install your light?
 
drivermaker said:
Did anyone stand on the table once it was put up to install your light?
Click to expand...

No, no misbehavior at all. The table was covered most of that time and not even played on for the last 4 days.
 
My guess is that it's a combination of the carpet settling and the frame settling after assembly. Fairly rare for the slates to pop, but certainly possible. Ususlly the table simply goes out of level and good installers will return to re-level the table at no charge.
It's also possible the table was NOT assembled correctly, but I'm giving the benefit of doubt to the installer.
Either way, the installers should stand behind their work and return to fix it at zero charge.

Troy
WestElder said:
I have a new $4000 9' pool table with 1" slate. It's in my basement on a carpet on top of a cement floor. I keep the humidity and temperature within the range of normal household settings. The table has had only light use, but both of the seams have popped already. The first one happened within days of being installed, and the other one less than a week after they came back out and fixed it. I don't want to mention the brand of the table at this point, but it is a well-respected name. On the other hand, if knowing that is important to get a reasonable explanation, I would be willing to share that. The dealer says this is pretty rare, and I'm inclined to believe him. At this point, I expect him to make good on the warrranty and quality I would expect of the installation. Can anyone explain why this would happen with a new table?

Dave
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joint stabilizer

Hey, any of you installers out there still using a joint stabilizer like liquid nails or just shimming and sealing the seams. Only reason I ask is because I've never had a slate seem pop on my installs while using it. at the seminar I was at, we actually got up on the table and stood and could not pop the center. It was pretty damn cool
 
my local Pool Hall had a slate pop (both ends) about a week after a re-cover.

The pool table mechanic uses Bondo. His reasoning was the Bondo must have mixed "too hot".

The pool table mechanic covered two (2) 9 footers, same day, one table popped & one was fine. The good repair is still fine, after several months.

When I covered my home table, I covered the seams with a very thin clear packing tape, carefully making sure of "no bubbles". A Pool Table mechanic in Tulsa showed me that trick. He says the tape traps any matter that might shake loose over time. There is no "roll off"...

Good Luck with your table repair ...
 
WestElder said:
both of the seams have popped already.
Dave
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Dave,
If its an Ohlhausen, its probably not very rare. My old Ohlhausen had this problem very soon after installation. It was fixed twice by the installer, but the problem recurred very quickly (you could feel a bead of the bonding material, and the ball would occasionally even hop a little going over it). They kept saying it was a humidity or settling problem. I got a second opinion from a master installer who was a friend of a friend, he came out, installed some extra shims (he had seen this problem with Ohlhausens before) in the center of the slates, re-bonded it; and the problem never recurred (approx. 2 years). PM me if you have an Ohlhausen and I can go into more detail (its a little more complicated than I have described )- it is definitely fixable, and was NOT from the humidity in my case.
 
ask the installer to use liquid dowel to piece together the slates...if bees wax was used it can pop..
 
when i was a rookie,i had some trouble with the seams popping but after 750 or more succesful installs i must have gotten it right.i havent had a slate seam pop on me in a few years and i only use beeswax.have them fix it again.
 
It must be a East Coast / West Coast thing, but Bondo® is the choice here.

Troy
mechanic/player said:
when i was a rookie,i had some trouble with the seams popping but after 750 or more succesful installs i must have gotten it right.i havent had a slate seam pop on me in a few years and i only use beeswax.have them fix it again.
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I agree Troy, bondo dose seem to be used a lot here. Do you remember Rebco tables? I think he was out of Fresno or Bakersfield. He used beeswax and was just about the only one that I remember using it. I don't know what Earnesto uses, I've seen him recover several times but just never checked it out. I would guess bondo but can't say for sure. Seems to me that it gets too hot in the Central Valley to use wax.
 
Ernesto uses Bondo® as does the top table mechanic in the SF Bay area.

Troy
Rickw said:
I agree Troy, bondo dose seem to be used a lot here. Do you remember Rebco tables? I think he was out of Fresno or Bakersfield. He used beeswax and was just about the only one that I remember using it. I don't know what Earnesto uses, I've seen him recover several times but just never checked it out. I would guess bondo but can't say for sure. Seems to me that it gets too hot in the Central Valley to use wax.
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IMO one of four reasons -- Settling, abuse, poor assembly, poor construction.

Troy
Rickw said:
Then why do they pop Mechanic/player?
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they can pop lots of different ways,not to worry the original poster of this thread but troy's answer is probally correct. the joint filler only fills the seams,most modern slate is diamond honed to ten thousands of an inch,it doesnt need much work to get them smooth,the slate weighs 275+ lbs a peice and they are secured to the frame by large shank ,three or four inch screws.
 
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Troy said:
IMO one of four reasons -- Settling, abuse, poor assembly, poor construction.
Troy
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It's not floor settling, since this is thin industrial grade carpet over cement, and I'm the sort that covers the table every night rather than hosts dance parties on it. Since it's a very reputable brand and came with pre-assembed support framework, I think that leaves assembly.

I looked at the table just now and noticed one or two things that might matter. The seam is raised in the center of the table, but not near the rails (3-6"). The center slab is raised, and there is a shim under that piece. I'm not an installer, but can I fix the problem myself by backing the shim out a little or all the way? The beeswax joint would still be broken, if I did that. Would the table need to be releveled? I'm asking because the felt (Simonis 860) has already been stripped off once and restapled, and I am worried about weakening the slate framing or chewing up the cloth edges.
 
When I said "settling", I was referring to the legs settling into the carpet at an uneven rate causing the table become un-level. If severe enough, the slates could possibly pop.

Troy
WestElder said:
It's not floor settling, since this is thin industrial grade carpet over cement, and I'm the sort that covers the table every night rather than hosts dance parties on it. Since it's a very reputable brand and came with pre-assembed support framework, I think that leaves assembly.

I looked at the table just now and noticed one or two things that might matter. The seam is raised in the center of the table, but not near the rails (3-6"). The center slab is raised, and there is a shim under that piece. I'm not an installer, but can I fix the problem myself by backing the shim out a little or all the way? The beeswax joint would still be broken, if I did that. Would the table need to be releveled? I'm asking because the felt (Simonis 860) has already been stripped off once and restapled, and I am worried about weakening the slate framing or chewing up the cloth edges.
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seams

I've found over the many installs I've done that sometimes the center shim works its way loose and can make the seem pop, you can usually take care of this without pulling the felt. you just have to know a little bit about what you are doing and show a little patience. I have however found some tables that just fought me the whole way, always popping a center after about a month of play. for this I decided to use liquid nails to stabilize the joint and haven't had problems since
 
at this point youve got nothing to lose by removing or adding a shim,if you cant fix it put it back in and call them back.you may or may not damage the wax,if you do sometimes you can roll it flat with a ball or something similar,if not call them back.the frame on your slate can be reused many times,the cloth,if not installed correctly can only be used so many times.the cloth needs to be tight as you can get it,yet still loose enuff in the pocket area so that you have enuff slack to attach it to the framed slate,without the puffy pocket look or the shreaded cloth problem you described.
 
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