Possible Abe Rich Merry Widow — Looking for Confirmation

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I recently picked up this older Merry Widow and, after going through the construction pretty closely and comparing it directly with two known Rich cues I own, I’m leaning pretty strongly toward Abe Rich. I’d appreciate opinions from anyone familiar with Abe’s work, particularly if you see something that would rule him out.

The joint is 5/16-18 and is directly compatible with both of my known Rich cues—the shafts and butts will interchange and thread properly. The cue measures approximately .830” at both the butt and shaft joint faces. The joint pin projects approximately .71” above the joint face.

The original shaft appears to have had a wood-over-brass pilot. The wooden portion has broken away, leaving the .410” brass threaded insert exposed. There is still a very distinct witness ring on the shaft face measuring approximately .57” across where the wooden portion of the pilot appears to have broken away. The receiving bore in the butt is also approximately the same diameter. One of my known Rich shafts uses essentially the same construction, with a .410” brass insert surrounded by its intact wooden pilot.

Where this cue differs noticeably from my known Rich cues is the unusually long joint pin and particularly the butt-end construction. It has what appears to be a Delrin butt cap with a separate recessed weight bolt and a solid domed push-in rubber bumper with no center screw hole. Both of my known Rich cues instead have screw-retained bumpers.

The cue is 58¾” overall including tip and bumper, with a 29” shaft measured from the joint face to the top of the ferrule, and a 29” butt measured from the joint face to the bottom edge of the butt sleeve prior to the bumper. The butt weighs 14.9 oz and the shaft 3.9 oz, for 18.8 oz total. The 1” ferrule measures 12.9 mm.

One other pleasant surprise is the overall condition. Aside from the missing wooden portion of the shaft pilot and the aging/wear to the brass joint collar, the cue is exceptionally well preserved. It also rolls dead straight—the butt, shaft and assembled cue all roll straight, without even any noticeable taper roll in the shaft.

Taken together—the Rich-compatible 5/16-18 joint architecture, original wood-over-brass pilot construction, unusually long pin, Delrin butt cap, independent weight-bolt system and solid push-in domed bumper—everything seems to be pointing me toward Abe rather than Rich Q.

Am I on the right track, or does anyone see something here that argues against Abe Rich?
 

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Curly’s Viking suggestion got me curious enough to pull out an older marked Viking I have here and put the two side by side. There are definitely some interesting similarities, particularly the forearm proportions, long joint pin, brass joint, and the fact that both use a push-in style bumper with a recessed hex weight bolt.

Once I started comparing the construction more closely, though, there are also some fairly significant differences.

The marked Viking shaft has an approximately .500” all-brass pilot, with no indication that it ever had a wooden component around it. The unknown cue has the .410” brass insert surrounded by the approximately .570” witness footprint where the wooden portion of its original pilot appears to have broken away.

The bumper systems also turn out to be different despite looking similar at first. The unknown cue has a relief machined into the butt cap that the rounded bumper seats into, while the Viking does not. The bumper stems are different diameters as well—the Viking bumper is too large to fit into the unknown cue, and the unknown cue’s bumper is too loose to stay in the Viking. The bumper profiles themselves are also noticeably different, with the unknown being considerably more rounded/domed.

Interestingly, the forearm lengths above the wrap are very close, but both sections of the unknown cue are substantially longer overall.

I thought the similarities and differences were interesting enough to add some direct comparison photos. Viking certainly seems worth considering.
 

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i know you are interested and that's great and fun to learn about cue collecting but i do hope you know you are collecting cues that really have no value and are considered junk. although junk is in the eyes of the beholder.

if you find one or two that hit well then they make good bar cues that you don't care what happens to them..
 
i know you are interested and that's great and fun to learn about cue collecting but i do hope you know you are collecting cues that really have no value and are considered junk. although junk is in the eyes of the beholder.

if you find one or two that hit well then they make good bar cues that you don't care what happens to them..
They look like offbeat knock offs.
 
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I saw this yesterday and finally got a minute to get back here to post.

These old generic looking cues are a dime a dozen and are often nearly impossible to ID. This one I can ID.

It's not Rich, Abe or otherwise.

98.396% for sure it was made by Viking for Murrey as found in the 1988 Murrey cue line as advertised in the Dec 1988 issue of Billiards Digest.

Circa 1988 Murrey M-40 cue.

These cues were made by Viking. Where Viking had a window, they merely replaced it with a black ring. Most, if not all, of the cues in the line have corresponding Viking models. I collect these.

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Now hand me my beer back so we can get this weekend rolling!
 
Yea the N line Viking that I just bought on this site has that exact pill bumper. N series for Viking was 89-92 with “Viking” inside an oval on the buttcap - after 1992 they added the word USA . Makes sense that this cue was a derivative of the Viking M line prior and being made for Murrey
 
View attachment 927069

I saw this yesterday and finally got a minute to get back here to post.

These old generic looking cues are a dime a dozen and are often nearly impossible to ID. This one I can ID.

It's not Rich, Abe or otherwise.

98.396% for sure it was made by Viking for Murrey as found in the 1988 Murrey cue line as advertised in the Dec 1988 issue of Billiards Digest.

Circa 1988 Murrey M-40 cue.

These cues were made by Viking. Where Viking had a window, they merely replaced it with a black ring. Most, if not all, of the cues in the line have corresponding Viking models. I collect these.

View attachment 927073

rpx-syria-mic-drop.gif


Now hand me my beer back so we can get this weekend rolling!
That’s fantastic! Once Curly mentioned Viking and I actually put them side-by-side, I knew there was definitely something going on there. You nailed it.

The Murrey connection explains a lot, particularly why so much of the construction was pointing toward Viking while some of the details weren’t lining up perfectly with the marked Viking I have here.

An actual model, manufacturer and period advertisement is about as definitive an answer as I could have hoped for. Thanks very much for taking the time to dig this out and post it — I really appreciate it. 👍
 
That’s fantastic! Once Curly mentioned Viking and I actually put them side-by-side, I knew there was definitely something going on there. You nailed it.

The Murrey connection explains a lot, particularly why so much of the construction was pointing toward Viking while some of the details weren’t lining up perfectly with the marked Viking I have here.

An actual model, manufacturer and period advertisement is about as definitive an answer as I could have hoped for. Thanks very much for taking the time to dig this out and post it — I really appreciate it. 👍
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