power draw

FranCrimi said:
So with all of you experts here --- who among you actually shot pool (not snooker) for a full year or more with a V-bridge? Anyone? Oh that's right... I did. And I did it on the women's pro tour. Here are two things I learned from that experience. 1.) A V-bridge is much more accurate for aiming --- first because you can see more and second because with a closed bridge, it's nearly impossible for the third finger to be exactly parallel to the table. The pool cue is always resting on a slight angle with a closed bridge. 2.) I had trouble power drawing the cue ball with an open bridge. I don't know whether it was psychological or physical --- probably some of both, but my pool cue was bouncing all over the place, no matter how much I tried to secure it in place. So for me that year, I used a V bridge for all shots except for a power draw. The imperfection of the closed bridge was less of a problem than the lack of control I had over the bouncing cue stick with the V Bridge.

Talk about your direct experiences, people --- not your theories.
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I've used an open bridge pretty much exclusively for 30-some years of regular play, daily play for the past several years.

I agree it's much better for aiming, including confirming your vision/cue alignment - that's why I like it.

I also like the benefit of being able to get lower than with a closed bridge.

As for the shaft jumping around, the solution to that for me is NOT to do something with the grip or the stroke to "control" it, but simply to recognize it doesn't matter to the shot and learn to ignore it. Takes some practice and not everybody's cup of tea.

pj
chgo
 
Bob Jewett said:
Watch O'Sullivan and Robertson when they are playing screw shots and the camera is behind them. See if you can find something quite unexpected that they are doing.
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And yet O'Sullivan has so much trouble playing 9 ball that he loses often and compares it to crazy golf. Snooker and pool are different.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I've used an open bridge pretty much exclusively for 30-some years of regular play, daily play for the past several years.

I agree it's much better for aiming, including confirming your vision/cue alignment - that's why I like it.

I also like the benefit of being able to get lower than with a closed bridge.

As for the shaft jumping around, the solution to that for me is NOT to do something with the grip or the stroke to "control" it, but simply to recognize it doesn't matter to the shot and learn to ignore it. Takes some practice and not everybody's cup of tea.

pj
chgo
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Agreed but why go through the pain and suffering of adapting a power draw to a V-bridge when you can accomplish the same more comfortably with a closed bridge? That's my thinking for myself. It wasn't necessary to make the change.
 
evergruven said:
hi fran
could your cue bouncing around
have had anything to do with the way your cue was balanced?
i.e. if the weight is in the back, the front might spray on some shots

personally, I'm no great player
but it's been a few years now
and the more I shoot with it
the more comfy I'm with the V
I can even break with it ok
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Very good question and I'm not sure I know the answer. Remembering back to what cue I was using at the time ---It was my Schuler cue with a sharp tapered shaft, which is why I switched to a V-bridge at that time. The shaft was solid maple so I don't think the weight distribution was especially towards the back like with a Predator cue. I think my stroke and what I was willing to tolerate at that time were mainly the reasons why, but I wouldn't rule out the cue balance as playing a role.
 
FranCrimi said:
Agreed but why go through the pain and suffering of adapting a power draw to a V-bridge when you can accomplish the same more comfortably with a closed bridge? That's my thinking for myself. It wasn't necessary to make the change.
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Switch "V-bridge" and "closed bridge" in your post and it's my thinking too.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Scott's a nationally respected instructor. You're not.

He's right. You're wrong.

Get over it.

And it's you who owes an apology - not that you'll understand that.

pj
chgo
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Incorrct analogy. Guy doesn't even understand English. Attacked a couple times with FAT HEAD. All true facks like all my posts incidentally.
 
In other news, nice civilized interchange guys! Company? :D

Anyhoo, open /closed bridge: holding near the balance point shifts the priority to closed bridge?
 
FranCrimi said:
Very good question and I'm not sure I know the answer. Remembering back to what cue I was using at the time ---It was my Schuler cue with a sharp tapered shaft, which is why I switched to a V-bridge at that time. The shaft was solid maple so I don't think the weight distribution was especially towards the back like with a Predator cue. I think my stroke and what I was willing to tolerate at that time were mainly the reasons why, but I wouldn't rule out the cue balance as playing a role.
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Patrick Johnson said:
Seems like the relatively large tip/ball collision forces pushing the tip up would make balance pretty much a non-factor in keeping it down.

pj <- for what that's worth
chgo
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speaking personally
it's gripping the cue closer to the tip
that made me think of balance point
if you can keep your grip hand back
I don't think it'd be much of an issue
but if you have short arms like me
or if you're bridging off the rail, etc.
balance point could come into play
where the open bridge is concerned
 
I rarely attempt screw (Draw) shots unless the pot is 4 feet or less. No way do I try screw back on more than half the snooker table length. The snooker pros don’t attempt the longer scews that often. They are more likely to use rails than to draw for position.

However those screw shots in the snooker video are phenomenal. It’s not pocketing the ball into a 3.5 inch pocket but screwing back for position on the next red or colour. If I screw over 4 feet, I miss about a third of the pots and am at best ‘guessing’ the draw effect.

I never use a closed bridge for any shot. Not sure how it would help with any shot including a screw. There’s nothing wrong with a closed bridge if it’s what one is used to but smooth cue action shouldn’t need to be held down.
 
Anything I'm likely to do on a snooker table will be conservative by default as well. Ever seen golf on a super tight table? Everything is shot at minimum speed; especially shots directly to your hole.
 
evergruven said:
speaking personally
it's gripping the cue closer to the tip
that made me think of balance point
if you can keep your grip hand back
I don't think it'd be much of an issue
but if you have short arms like me
or if you're bridging off the rail, etc.
balance point could come into play
where the open bridge is concerned
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regardless of balance point it will always be behind the V of the open bridge
so an inch here or there shouldnt matter
also the weight of the cue behind the V will be the same based on your bridge length not balance point
i am assuming the weight of the first 10-12 inches of the shaft will stay constant
and the cuemaker manipulates the weight behind that to acheive a balance point
jmho
icbw
 
[Mostly] light grip/light touch/gentle strokes = strong player/pro player = V-bridge is fine

Power draw is the opposite, close the bridge (for most players)

So amateurs can use a V-bridge as a self-diagnostic/aid to smoothing your stroke and relaxing any choking or death hold
 
bbb said:
regardless of balance point it will always be behind the V of the open bridge
so an inch here or there shouldnt matter
also the weight of the cue behind the V will be the same based on your bridge length not balance point
i am assuming the weight of the first 10-12 inches of the shaft will stay constant
and the cuemaker manipulates the weight behind that to acheive a balance point
jmho
icbw
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Technically, different distances from the bridge to the balance point make a difference in how much weight rests on the bridge itself (less distance = more weight on the bridge).

But I agree the differences are too small to matter.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
There's no reason except psychological to prefer a closed bridge for any kind of shot.

pj
chgo
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So are you saying that the carom players all have psychological issues? Or is that for just pool and snooker only? And if you're not including carom players in the mix --- why?
 
FranCrimi said:
So are you saying that the carom players all have psychological issues?
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Since there's no physical reason to avoid open bridges, whatever "issues" they have with them are psychological (they believe it matters when it doesn't really). Of course, that doesn't mean they "have psychological issues" in general...

pj
chgo
 
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bbb said:
regardless of balance point it will always be behind the V of the open bridge
so an inch here or there shouldnt matter
also the weight of the cue behind the V will be the same based on your bridge length not balance point
i am assuming the weight of the first 10-12 inches of the shaft will stay constant
and the cuemaker manipulates the weight behind that to acheive a balance point
jmho
icbw
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hey larry
I think most players' bridges end up being about so far from the tip, 8-12", etc.
but wherever you place your bridge, your grip hand can only go so far back, right?
so, for instance, if you have short arms like I do, or just want to choke up on the cue
I think balance point becomes pretty important, especially using an open bridge
try gripping your cue at or near its balance point, and shooting with the V
maybe you can do it, but I'd be very surprised if it was comfortable as normal
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Since there's no physical reason to avoid open bridges, whatever "issues" they have with them are psychological (they believe it matters when it doesn't really). Of course, that doesn't mean they "have psychological issues" in general...

pj
chgo
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How about we ask Bob Jewett about carom players and closed bridges? Maybe he can shed some light on how an entire population of carom players may have psychological reasons rather than physical reasons for using closed bridges.
 
FranCrimi said:
How about we ask Bob Jewett about carom players and closed bridges? Maybe he can shed some light on how an entire population of carom players may have psychological reasons rather than physical reasons for using closed bridges.
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It is true that many carom players used closed bridges for all or nearly all shots. I think some of this is tradition because the original carom games used very short bridges and grips that were very far forward along with an upright stance. The closed bridge would prevent tip rise in that situation. It's also interesting to note that players of the "small" carom games such as balkline use closed bridges that pool players never use.

My own feeling is that while a closed bridge is not needed if the back hand is perfect, it can help to mitigate stroke arm problems such as gripping tightly during the forward stroke causing the tip to rise. I switched from an open bridge for all shots to nearly always a closed bridge because Willie Mosconi told me to. I wonder if staying with an open bridge might not have forced me to fix the stroke problems I still have.

I think it is good to work on power shots with an open bridge to see if the grip hand is behaving, but a closed bridge will be needed if it is not. I regularly work on power draw shots with an open bridge as a stroke mechanics drill.
 
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