power draw

E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
miscued a few times stroking low and level
think I was trying to too hard, maybe got tight
for a change, I tried striking higher up on the cb
but with a downward stroke
it actually worked pretty well..surprised me
wondering what the instructors' take is on this technique?
 
Shooting level makes it impossible to generate the rotation required. You end up propelling the ball mass forward besides generating spin.
Shooting down at the ball (besides "level cue" is a pool myth) does a couple things in your favor. First the ball can't get away from you as it's being rammed into the table. I also think there is a compression going on that lets the back spin explode right out the gate. (threw this in to troll PJ but I do believe it.) Second, the ball will be airborne; possibly all the way to the object ball. So, no frictional loss of spin. One more troll point (which I also believe): the ball has a good chance of hitting the object ball high and even rolling back off the object ball before it hits the ground running.

That said, I can't power draw to save my life. Maybe someday I'll be able to distill the touch required.
 
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straightline said:
Shooting level makes it impossible to generate the rotation required. You ending propelling the ball mass forward besides generating spin.
Shooting down at the ball (besides "level cue" is a pool myth) does a couple things in your favor. First the ball can't get away from you as it's being rammed into the table. I also think there is a compression going on that lets the back spin explode right out the gate. (threw this in to troll PJ but I do believe it.) Second, the ball will be airborne; possibly all the way to the object ball. So, no frictional loss of spin. One more troll point (which I also believe): the ball has a good chance of hitting the object ball high and even rolling back off the object ball before it hits the ground running.

That said, I can't power draw to save my life. Maybe someday I'll be able to distill the touch required.
Click to expand...
This is all nonsense - we’ll, except maybe for the last paragraph.

It’s all been discussed many times before. Level-as-possible cue produces the most draw - that and hitting low enough are the only “touch” required.

pj
chgo
 
Explain then, the power-est draw I can think of:
2 rails the long way jacked up on the end rail at a ball outside the pocket on the other end.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This is all nonsense - we’ll, except maybe for the last paragraph.

It’s all been discussed many times before. Level-as-possible cue produces the most draw - that and hitting low enough are the only “touch” required.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Also, I have a vague memory of Bob Jewett saying that once you aim lower than a certain low point, you get diminishing returns. I forgot what he said the lowest maximum return point was. Maybe he could chime in here, unless you know what that point is.
 
evergruven said:
miscued a few times stroking low and level
think I was trying to too hard, maybe got tight
for a change, I tried striking higher up on the cb
but with a downward stroke
it actually worked pretty well..surprised me
wondering what the instructors' take is on this technique?
Click to expand...
If you're shooting level and you miscue, you may be hitting the cue ball too low, causing it to ride up on to the ferrule. Try a hair higher.
 
FranCrimi said:
Also, I have a vague memory of Bob Jewett saying that once you aim lower than a certain low point, you get diminishing returns. I forgot what he said the lowest maximum return point was. Maybe he could chime in here, unless you know what that point is.
Click to expand...
It might have been Dr. Dave who first pointed it out - if I recall correctly he says about 80% of maximum tip offset. But I believe that only applies to long power draw shots - for others maximum low gives best results.

pj
chgo
 
FranCrimi said:
Also, I have a vague memory of Bob Jewett saying that once you aim lower than a certain low point, you get diminishing returns. I forgot what he said the lowest maximum return point was. Maybe he could chime in here, unless you know what that point is.
Click to expand...
The problem with a long power draw is that if you play very low -- as low as possible without miscuing -- the cue ball is going slower on the way to the object ball. That gives the cue ball more time to lose its draw and it turns out that there is a best distance below center to get best draw, and that is not all the way down. It starts out with more draw than a higher hit, but the arrival draw is the important thing.

Virtual Pool is accurate enough to demonstrate this and if you have "tracking" turned on -- which shows you ball paths for the speed/spin chosen -- you can move the tip up and down on the cue ball and note that somewhat up from bottom is best.

Hitting a little higher also has the advantage of moving away from the miscue region.
 
evergruven said:
miscued a few times stroking low and level
think I was trying to too hard, maybe got tight
for a change, I tried striking higher up on the cb
but with a downward stroke
it actually worked pretty well..surprised me
wondering what the instructors' take is on this technique?
Click to expand...
Hitting down on the cue ball is bad for several reasons. Learn to hit the cue ball accurately with a level stroke.
 
straightline said:
Shooting level makes it impossible to generate the rotation required. You end up propelling the ball mass forward besides generating spin.
Shooting down at the ball (besides "level cue" is a pool myth) does a couple things in your favor. First the ball can't get away from you as it's being rammed into the table. I also think there is a compression going on that lets the back spin explode right out the gate. (threw this in to troll PJ but I do believe it.) Second, the ball will be airborne; possibly all the way to the object ball. So, no frictional loss of spin. One more troll point (which I also believe): the ball has a good chance of hitting the object ball high and even rolling back off the object ball before it hits the ground running.

That said, I can't power draw to save my life. Maybe someday I'll be able to distill the touch required.
Click to expand...

I know you're being disagreed with
but some of this actually makes sense to me
since I started getting really low and level
my overall ability to draw has improved immensely
on the power draw tho (cb far from ob)
low level felt like way more work than elevating

BilliardsAbout said:
If you like that technique, try bridging for center ball and use the downward-angled stroke.
Click to expand...

that's what I did, I guess
pretty sure I hit lower than cb tho

Patrick Johnson said:
This is all nonsense - we’ll, except maybe for the last paragraph.

It’s all been discussed many times before. Level-as-possible cue produces the most draw - that and hitting low enough are the only “touch” required.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

comeback of the ol' power draw thread! (see what I did there?)
as I mentioned above, I love limboing with my cue tip
but distance between cb and ob was tough..gonna have to work on it

FranCrimi said:
If you're shooting level and you miscue, you may be hitting the cue ball too low, causing it to ride up on to the ferrule. Try a hair higher.
Click to expand...

hi fran
I've tested to see how low I could get on the cb with a level cue
tried to get lower than the bottom of a stripe ball..couldn't do it!
I think I just tried too hard and mis-stroked, which led to the mis-cue

will continue to play with it tho..thanks all for the replies!
 

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Bob Jewett said:
Then you need to understand the shot better. You are at perhaps the second layer of the onion.
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I'm not disagreeing with this
but empirically, for whatever reason,
I felt much more comfortable hitting downward on this shot
on every other draw shot I can think of, minus some funky, nip-type
low and level wins the race
when I picture pool in my mind tho
where the cb and ob and far apart
low and level is a struggle

but that's just so far
the shot doesn't come up very often for me (thankfully?)
and I don't practice it..but I think I should
at least to the point where I really understand
what is the best way

thanks bob-
 
Bob Jewett said:
Hitting down on the cue ball is bad for several reasons. Learn to hit the cue ball accurately with a level stroke.
Click to expand...
We both know there is no such thing as a level draw stroke.


straightline said:
Shooting level makes it impossible to generate the rotation required. You end up propelling the ball mass forward besides generating spin.
Shooting down at the ball (besides "level cue" is a pool myth) does a couple things in your favor. First the ball can't get away from you as it's being rammed into the table. I also think there is a compression going on that lets the back spin explode right out the gate. (threw this in to troll PJ but I do believe it.) Second, the ball will be airborne; possibly all the way to the object ball. So, no frictional loss of spin. One more troll point (which I also believe): the ball has a good chance of hitting the object ball high and even rolling back off the object ball before it hits the ground running.

That said, I can't power draw to save my life. Maybe someday I'll be able to distill the touch required.
Click to expand...
Bob Jewett said:
Readers should pay far more attention to the second sentence than the first.
Click to expand...
The shot I'm referring to is from jacked up on the far rail. The Massey draw is a regular draw shot with extra leverage; more than I can physically produce with an accurate stroke.
Bob Jewett said:
Hitting down on the cue ball is bad for several reasons. Learn to hit the cue ball accurately with a level stroke.
Click to expand...
Given you have to hit down on a draw shot as well as piquets and masses, what are these reasons?
 
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