Power forward roll?

[Floyd_M]

I'm looking for info how to get power top roll on the cue ball.
I've watched several Mike Massey's video's but getting more forward roll than cue stick speed eludes me.
My draw shots are fine to great so I figured the top roll must be similar, it isn't.
I know that follow through is key and tried different cue tips, hard, med-hard, medium & med-soft. I had the soft 1990s LePro tip and will not go back to soft tips.
Thoughts?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm looking for info how to get power top roll on the cue ball. I've watched Mike Massey's video's but it seems to elude me.

Hit it high and hard. There's no secret - except that's more difficult than it sounds like.

Massey can do that accurately and consistently - you can too after playing hours a day for several years. Until then trying to hit high enough with your less consistent hard stroke will result in too many miscues.

pj
chgo

 

[Floyd_M]

I'm a fan of open bridge on most shots but when it comes to draw & power forward closed bridge is a must.
With max draw shots I've learned to create a slight jump shot so the cue ball loses near zero reverse at impact. Doing that on power forward causes cue & object ball jumping thus losing 'X' amount of mass moving loss.

.

 

[measureman]

Hit it high and hard with a short quicker then normal stroke.
The cue ball should hesitate for a split second and then accelerate like jet with after burners on.

 

[Bob Jewett]

You probably aren't hitting the cue ball high enough. Many players address the ball high and then hit lower because they are afraid of miscuing. They have lost conscious control of where they hit the ball. If you use a stripe as your cue ball with stripe horizontal, you should be able to hit at the top of the color.

 

[measureman]

I'm a fan of open bridge on most shots but when it comes to draw & power forward closed bridge is a must.
With max draw shots I've learned to create a slight jump shot so the cue ball loses near zero reverse at impact. Doing that on power forward causes cue & object ball jumping thus losing 'X' amount of mass moving loss.

.

With force follow the cue ball should jump a little allowing it to gain speed while not on the cloth.

 

[Floyd_M]

Bob J.: That's quite possibly what I'm doing sub-conscientiously, lowering my tip. Will work on that tonight.
Measureman: I'll have to setup my phone's video to see that jump along with the possible poor follow through stroke.
THANKS ALL.

 

[measureman]

Bob J.: That's quite possibly what I'm doing sub-conscientiously, lowering my tip. Will work on that tonight.
Measureman: I'll have to setup my phone's video to see that jump along with the possible poor follow through stroke.
THANKS ALL.

It's a short sharp stroke.

 

[Bob Jewett]

It's a short sharp stroke.

I think it's best to use a stroke that gets the cue stick moving as fast as possible without losing control. For most people, that will be a longer stroke to get the power.

I assume the OP wants 10 or 12 diamonds of follow or to double the rail, but an example shot might help us understand the problem.

 

[David in FL]

You probably aren't hitting the cue ball high enough. Many players address the ball high and then hit lower because they are afraid of miscuing. They have lost conscious control of where they hit the ball. If you use a stripe as your cue ball with stripe horizontal, you should be able to hit at the top of the color.

If I may, I‘ll also add, that when you’re hitting high, it’s not the center portion of your tip that‘s actually striking the cue ball, it’s the lower portion. Which means that you’re actually striking the ball probably a quarter tip lower than you think you are…

 

[Bob Jewett]

Another thing to look for if you are fearful of a shot is that you let up on it. That means that you start slowing the cue stick down before you hit the ball. Lots of players do this on draw shots and it guarantees inferior back spin.

A video recording can probably diagnose this problem if it is present.

 

[WobblyStroke]

If you don't struggle with power draw but do with power tops, it is almost certainly a tip level issue as Bob and David in FL pointed out. The opposite is more common as more people hit a bit higher than they expect rather than lower.

This is what I did with a student that had the opposite issue, struggling to draw but had amazing cue power on his power tops (his favorite shot).
1. Leave the stroke unchanged and just hit progressively higher on the ball with it.
2. Make sure you keep moving the tip up until you a) get the desired result, or b) miscue.

FWIW, the student didn't miscue but for his power draw did have to aim up to the ball as if he was trying to miscue/scoop it in the air.

The above approach is easier than changing the stroke BUT it requires your deviation from address to be very consistent as in the case of my student who had a very good repeatable stroke that just came in a half tip higher than at address.

Earl Tip: Strickland often tells people to hit power tops shots by 'bending both knees' lol. This does affect how level your stroke will be but imo changing ur stance shouldn't be necessary. Works for the champ tho, so maybe it will for you too.

 

[Floyd_M]

Last night I did some different angles on Power Top Rolls. Found 2 issues.
1- Leveled the stick and use a higher tip contact. Can't do that when OB is real close to the CB.
2- In the past, my follow through always seem to double hit the ball. So at point of contact I began lifting the tip with follow through to clear the CB. That also helped.
.
I may have to rethink the tip hardness. I'm a fan of med-hard tip 'POP' but will give med-soft a try on another cue I have. More friction area contact should beget (micro-seconds) longer contact time.
.
Earl Tip: I can't do that. I'm already scraping the butt on the rails, sometimes my knuckles. Not fun with the arthritis.
.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In the past, my follow through always seem to double hit the ball.

I don't think that's possible unless the CB's blocked (or maybe if you miscued).

pj
chgo

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Floyd, this may help. On a 'power follow' shot the cue ball goes just a little over half the distance the object ball goes. So set up a straight shot with the cue ball 18 inches from the object ball. If the object ball goes 3 table lengths the cue ball should go about 1 1/2 length. Let us know this works out for you. ( Disclaimer, jump balls alter these results.)

 

[FranCrimi]

Last night I did some different angles on Power Top Rolls. Found 2 issues.
1- Leveled the stick and use a higher tip contact. Can't do that when OB is real close to the CB.
2- In the past, my follow through always seem to double hit the ball. So at point of contact I began lifting the tip with follow through to clear the CB. That also helped.
.
I may have to rethink the tip hardness. I'm a fan of med-hard tip 'POP' but will give med-soft a try on another cue I have. More friction area contact should beget (micro-seconds) longer contact time.
.
Earl Tip: I can't do that. I'm already scraping the butt on the rails, sometimes my knuckles. Not fun with the arthritis.
.

If the two balls are really really close, even if you shoot up at the ball to get the tip out of the way to avoid the double-hit, it may not be visible with the naked eye, and you may be called on a foul, whether it is or not. So I think it's probably best in that situation to try to come up with an alternative shot, even if it means playing a safety.

If the balls are close and you feel you do have enough room but lack the power because you can't lengthen your stroke, then you can flick your wrist at impact to get more power with a short stroke.

 

[Floyd_M]

THANKS GUYS for the help (my teammates are useless in that dept).
When I hard top roll, my tip extends beyond the cue ball momentarily until the forward roll grabs the cloth.
I have sightly Whippy Meucci's. They bend UP then whip down onto the cue ball.

I've lowered the tip a little, shortened my bridge draw length, use a closed bridge, now don't have the double hit issue.
''Strange that the little things will make a big difference.''

.