practice aim

[ManifestEcstacy]

what are some good drills one can do to work on how to cut the ball in to the hole.. I played a good amount of games today and I really struggled with that, I think i just need to take some time, and really just stand at a table, and practice cutting balls in to the pockets.. and draining 2,3,4 in a row..
however, is there anything that someone out there does to actually practice this, or is just sinking balls the best way to go about this

 

[Loun]

i think sinking balls would be the only real way to do it... but obviously for aiming purposes. if you imagine a line straight through the object ball to the pocket that is your EDIT** contact (replacing "aim") point for the cut.. put some balls on the rain and try cutting them at different angles that way you have to cut them right or you miss. might make open table cuts easier since there is often more margin for error in them. Or you could buy that Spyder thing

Edit*Did you know the difference between aim point and contact point or where you just asking about how to make it so you can better know where you need to hit the ball to make it go in?

 

[vapoolplayer]

if you imagine a line straight through the object ball to the pocket that is your aim point for the cut..

W R O N G!!!!!

that is NOT NOT NOT NOT the aim point. that is the CONTACT point.

only on certain ways of aiming is the this the aim point. most ways of aiming it is the contact point which is TOTALLY different.

thanks

VAP

 

[Flex]

what are some good drills one can do to work on how to cut the ball in to the hole.. I played a good amount of games today and I really struggled with that, I think i just need to take some time, and really just stand at a table, and practice cutting balls in to the pockets.. and draining 2,3,4 in a row..
however, is there anything that someone out there does to actually practice this, or is just sinking balls the best way to go about this

Check out this thread, #28 on the page. It may help.

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=13612&page=2

Best,

Flex

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

what are some good drills one can do to work on how to cut the ball in to the hole.. I played a good amount of games today and I really struggled with that, I think i just need to take some time, and really just stand at a table, and practice cutting balls in to the pockets.. and draining 2,3,4 in a row..
however, is there anything that someone out there does to actually practice this, or is just sinking balls the best way to go about this

Practice, practice, practice! Seriously, these things don't happen overnight. Your brain actually needs time to make the connections so just continue playing until they start dropping. You might want to talk to a poolroom about whether they have a beginner's clinic that can help steer you away from bad habits but for the most part, just keep hitting balls.

 

[Loun]

if you imagine a line straight through the object ball to the pocket that is your aim point for the cut..

W R O N G!!!!!

that is NOT NOT NOT NOT the aim point. that is the CONTACT point.

only on certain ways of aiming is the this the aim point. most ways of aiming it is the contact point which is TOTALLY different.
thanks
VAP

Seriously... what is your issue? I said aim instead of contact what I mean is, thats where you have to frigging hit the ball, unless of course you are using english and then that might change depending on the english you are using. Then again after you emphatically yell that its NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the aim point and that im W R O N G !!!!! you go right into saying.... "only on certain ways of aiming is the this the aim point."

You make no sense. btw simple common sense and etiquette would lead to a post like...

Actually in most cases that would be the contact point not the aim point however there are "aiming methods" where that would be the aim point.

*Then actual advice would go here*

Just food for thought since your post persoanlly attacks someones, then says that person is actually write in some cases, and then gives no actual advice to the original poster.

-Lou

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Seriously... what is your issue? I said aim instead of contact what I mean is, thats where you have to frigging hit the ball, unless of course you are using english and then that might change depending on the english you are using. Then again after you emphatically yell that its NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the aim point and that im W R O N G !!!!! you go right into saying.... "only on certain ways of aiming is the this the aim point."

You make no sense. btw simple common sense and etiquette would lead to a post like...



Just food for thought since your post persoanlly attacks someones, then says that person is actually write in some cases, and then gives no actual advice to the original poster.

-Lou

Lou, I wouldn't read into VaPoolPlayer's tone too much. He's a good guy who offers sound advice. It's just that on forums like these, people ask questions and will receive incomplete answers. After a while, it gets a little frustrating watching bad-advice get circulated through a grape-vine we've all grown to feel partial ownership of.

What VaPoolPlayer was referring to was the contact point versus the aim point. The only instance where the two are the same is when you have a perfectly straight shot. In all other instances, adjustments need to be made because the side of the cue-ball will contact the object ball first. Aiming directly at the contact point will always result in an undercut.

Aiming methods such as "The Ghost Ball" go over this in greater detail. I'm sure if you google it, you'll find exactly what I'm referring to.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Seriously... what is your issue? I said aim instead of contact what I mean is, thats where you have to frigging hit the ball, unless of course you are using english and then that might change depending on the english you are using. Then again after you emphatically yell that its NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the aim point and that im W R O N G !!!!! you go right into saying.... "only on certain ways of aiming is the this the aim point."

You make no sense. btw simple common sense and etiquette would lead to a post like...



Just food for thought since your post persoanlly attacks someones, then says that person is actually write in some cases, and then gives no actual advice to the original poster.

-Lou

my issue is the spread of bad info.....

you told that guy that the contact point is the aim point.......you failed to mention how to use it..........now the poor guy will start aiming the center of the ball at that spot more than likely..........

if you're going to give advice........then give advice.......if you're going to give a halfass answer........then shutup......simple as that.

no problems here, i'm on here to help myself and other people get better...........if someone such as yourself thats giving out bad info gets stepped on from time to time.........life goes on.

thanks

VAP

 

[Loun]

you told that guy that the contact point is the aim point.......you failed to mention how to use it..........now the poor guy will start aiming the center of the ball at that spot more than likely..........

I understand what you are saying but also understand what im saying... you cut me down, then told me... well you are only right in some systems then you offer no further advice to the kid...

As far as him thinking he can aim the center of the cue and hit that point and it will go in... I disagree that would happen.. the first time he hits the contact point with the center of the cue ball he will know thats not how its supposed to be done... there are a ton of different aiming methods out there and I have read about the ghost ball method. In essense its what I use when I shoot however I look at where the contact point would be and I adjust visually as to see how to hit it with the point of the cue that will hit the ball.


I understand you may be a good guy and I respect Judes opinion on that. What i am saying is there is no need to come across as an ahole here and your posts have been coming across that way. Since they are more just personal attacks as opposed to trying to actually help anyone.

Id also argue that someone who has a question on how to get better with cutting an OB would only become even confused by someone spouting off on all the different aiming methods and going into detail about each of them. Line up the shot, see where you need to hit it to make it go in and then realize what part of the cur ball actually hits the OB and hit it.

-Lou

 

[vapoolplayer]

As far as him thinking he can aim the center of the cue and hit that point and it will go in... I disagree that would happen.. the first time he hits the contact point with the center of the cue ball he will know thats not how its supposed to be done... -Lou

this is a common beginner problem.......people will aim the center to the contact point.......and people will keep doing it until told otherwise.......you see this all the time.

its one of many reasons why beginners tend to undercut a ball most of the time when they miss.

VAP

 

[RSB-Refugee]

The only instance where the two are the same is when you have a perfectly straight shot. In all other instances, adjustments need to be made because the side of the cue-ball will contact the object ball first. Aiming directly at the contact point will always result in an undercut.

I do not disagree with this statement, but it does assume that everyone aims with the center of the cue ball. Since the contact point is the point on an object ball furthest from the pocket, and the cueballs contact point is the point closest to the same pocket. If these two points are aimed at each other the shot will go in the hole. This may be more complicated than a standard ghost ball aiming method. but it is essentially the same. When you use a ghost ball method, do you aim at a spot on the cloth half a ball away from the contact point? Or are you looking at the object ball? I am not trying to confuse the issue, it is just that everyone perceives things a little differently.

Tracy

 

[vapoolplayer]

I do not disagree with this statement, but it does assume that everyone aims with the center of the cue ball. Since the contact point is the point on an object ball furthest from the pocket, and the cueballs contact point is the point closest to the same pocket. If these two points are aimed at each other the shot will go in the hole. This may be more complicated than a standard ghost ball aiming method. but it is essentially the same. When you use a ghost ball method, do you aim at a spot on the cloth half a ball away from the contact point? Or are you looking at the object ball? I am not trying to confuse the issue, it is just that everyone perceives things a little differently.

Tracy

thats very true. jude an i were just pointing out that the statement made about the line thru the cue ball needs to be explained in detail. as most of the methods out there do not use this as an aim point.

thanks

VAP

 

[Loun]

this is a common beginner problem.......people will aim the center to the contact point.......and people will keep doing it until told otherwise.......you see this all the time.

its one of many reasons why beginners tend to undercut a ball most of the time when they miss.

VAP

My arguement though would be that if after doing that 5 or 6 times wouldnt you realize you are doing something wrong? At the level someone in that boat is at I think a technical explanation of aim point and contact point or throwing all the aiming methods out there are them will just confuse them. This is why practicing is the best thing that is going to solve this problem in my opinion. Since I am still *new* I can remember how I learned things which is why I sometimes think those of you who are *more experienced* have somewhat lost touch of because it was so long ago and now you may overanalyze it.

From a newer play to you.... this is what i would suggest. Practice practice practice... take the cue ball line it up with the object ball so its straight in on the pocket and touching the object ball *frozen*. That is the part of the cue that has to make contact with the object ball to put it in the pocket. You can move around the table and look from different angles... that is the CONTACT point. That is where you need to hit the object ball to pocket it as long as you are hitting the center of the cue ball (not applying english that will alter the path of the object ball) and do not hit it really hard as that may also alter the path of the object ball to the pocket... (I believe that is called throw but im probably wrong on that as well)

As far as how I practiced all of this. Start with the object ball fairly close to the pocket so you have a little more more margin for error. Start practicing cut shots that are just off from straight in. Then start moving to a greater cut angle. As soon as you are able to make those shots, move the object ball further from the pocket and try again. (make sure you are hitting the center of the cue ball with a smooth stroke)

Once you are able to now understand where you need to hit the object ball to cut it in... put it agains a rail maybe 5 inches from a pocket. Try to cut that in from different angles, then move it further from the pocket and repeat. Being on the rail will give you a lot less margin for error, you need to split the hit 50% object ball and 50% rail (for now) later you will be able to hiit the rail first with a little bit of english and pocket the ball but for now cut it 50/50.

After you have successfully been able to pocket the object ball on the rail... put the object ball back in the open and place another ball near it but not directly in the path, this will teach you to concentrate on the ball you are trying to cut it and not the other ball in your line of sight. You can either put the ball next to where you will be making contact with the object ball or someplace down the line near the pocket but make sure its not in the way, its merely there to get in your head. Once you can do this put a couple other balls out there to try to distract you... as long as they arent in the way you shouldnt hit them if you just worry about hitting the object ball where you need to.

Then comes english but you then have to adjust for it and that is something you dont need to worry about yet. To clearify though... the reason I say center ball hit on the cue ball is because if you put draw or follow or left and right english it can potentially ad variables into the situation that you arent going to be able to consistantly learn from at this point. Figure those out after you get the basics down.

I practice cut shots every day that I shoot. Whether its from one end of the table to the other putting all 15 balls into the corner pockets a few times from different angles, to cutting all 15 balls into the side pockets from both ends of the table. (I am usually afraid of side pockets so I do this drill to get my confidence up when im playing on a new table it also lets you see how the pockets are) Develop your own way of doing drills and so on based on what you need to learn and practice. Once you get the basics then you can throw some more wrenches in there.

Images:

Shorter Cuts to start with:

Then move on to longer cuts:

Rail cuts require a 50/50 split hit for now:

Then start to learn to ignore the other balls on the table:

If you think you would rather learn aiming systems... then check out some of the following posts... a Search for "Aiming Systems" Personally I think practice and finding what works for you is a better option.

Good luck

Keep in mind this is just MY suggestion and how I would do it but everyone will have their own way.

-Lou

 

[drivermaker]

My arguement though would be that if after doing that 5 or 6 times wouldnt you realize you are doing something wrong? At the level someone in that boat is at I think a technical explanation of aim point and contact point or throwing all the aiming methods out there are them will just confuse them. This is why practicing is the best thing that is going to solve this problem in my opinion. Since I am still *new* I can remember how I learned things which is why I sometimes think those of you who are *more experienced* have somewhat lost touch of because it was so long ago and now you may overanalyze it.

From a newer play to you.... this is what i would suggest. Practice practice practice... take the cue ball line it up with the object ball so its straight in on the pocket and touching the object ball *frozen*. That is the part of the cue that has to make contact with the object ball to put it in the pocket. You can move around the table and look from different angles... that is the CONTACT point. That is where you need to hit the object ball to pocket it as long as you are hitting the center of the cue ball (not applying english that will alter the path of the object ball) and do not hit it really hard as that may also alter the path of the object ball to the pocket... (I believe that is called throw but im probably wrong on that as well)

As far as how I practiced all of this. Start with the object ball fairly close to the pocket so you have a little more more margin for error. Start practicing cut shots that are just off from straight in. Then start moving to a greater cut angle. As soon as you are able to make those shots, move the object ball further from the pocket and try again. (make sure you are hitting the center of the cue ball with a smooth stroke)

Once you are able to now understand where you need to hit the object ball to cut it in... put it agains a rail maybe 5 inches from a pocket. Try to cut that in from different angles, then move it further from the pocket and repeat. Being on the rail will give you a lot less margin for error, you need to split the hit 50% object ball and 50% rail (for now) later you will be able to hiit the rail first with a little bit of english and pocket the ball but for now cut it 50/50.

After you have successfully been able to pocket the object ball on the rail... put the object ball back in the open and place another ball near it but not directly in the path, this will teach you to concentrate on the ball you are trying to cut it and not the other ball in your line of sight. You can either put the ball next to where you will be making contact with the object ball or someplace down the line near the pocket but make sure its not in the way, its merely there to get in your head. Once you can do this put a couple other balls out there to try to distract you... as long as they arent in the way you shouldnt hit them if you just worry about hitting the object ball where you need to.

Then comes english but you then have to adjust for it and that is something you dont need to worry about yet. To clearify though... the reason I say center ball hit on the cue ball is because if you put draw or follow or left and right english it can potentially ad variables into the situation that you arent going to be able to consistantly learn from at this point. Figure those out after you get the basics down.

I practice cut shots every day that I shoot. Whether its from one end of the table to the other putting all 15 balls into the corner pockets a few times from different angles, to cutting all 15 balls into the side pockets from both ends of the table. (I am usually afraid of side pockets so I do this drill to get my confidence up when im playing on a new table it also lets you see how the pockets are) Develop your own way of doing drills and so on based on what you need to learn and practice. Once you get the basics then you can throw some more wrenches in there.

Images:

Shorter Cuts to start with:

Then move on to longer cuts:

Rail cuts require a 50/50 split hit for now:

Then start to learn to ignore the other balls on the table:

If you think you would rather learn aiming systems... then check out some of the following posts... a Search for "Aiming Systems" Personally I think practice and finding what works for you is a better option.

Good luck

Keep in mind this is just MY suggestion and how I would do it but everyone will have their own way.

-Lou

That should bring everything into perspective for him and simplify it.

Did you know you can make balls without using ghostball or contact points?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I do not disagree with this statement, but it does assume that everyone aims with the center of the cue ball. Since the contact point is the point on an object ball furthest from the pocket, and the cueballs contact point is the point closest to the same pocket. If these two points are aimed at each other the shot will go in the hole. This may be more complicated than a standard ghost ball aiming method. but it is essentially the same. When you use a ghost ball method, do you aim at a spot on the cloth half a ball away from the contact point? Or are you looking at the object ball? I am not trying to confuse the issue, it is just that everyone perceives things a little differently.

Tracy

Hey Tracy, to be honest with you, I don't use a ghost-ball technique or even aim at a specific point on the ball. In my opinion, the ghost-ball is merely a tool used to explain what is occuring during the collision, that's all.

 

[HittMan]

contrarian view

That should bring everything into perspective for him and simplify it.

Did you know you can make balls without using ghostball or contact points?

Not to be argumentative but I *believe* a contact point is essential...we used to say the ball won't go if it doesn't move...but with all the new paradigms these days I'll admit that the calculation itself might simply make the ball disappear, giving a player the impression the ball was pocketed. Sure makes me want to disappear folks don't realize that the key to this sport is practice, practice, practice. And Ohh...did I mention that conscious practice will answer most of these questions.

 

[drivermaker]

Not to be argumentative but I *believe* a contact point is essential...we used to say the ball won't go if it doesn't move...

Didn't you read Jude's post? He said the same thing...why are you pickin' on old drivermaker?

I never said that there aren't "points of contact" between CB and OB. There must be right at the moment of collision. Sometimes those points are miscalculated during the aiming process...or...sometimes they're misstruck from a faulty stroke...either way it'll cause a MISS.

I just said that it wasn't necessary to worry about the contact points when aiming to make the ball. Other methods of alignment can be used to just allow it to come about.

 

[JoeyInCali]

the ghost-ball is merely a tool used to explain what is occuring during the collision, that's all.

The ghost ball is absolutely a great "tool" imo.
If one knows where the ghost ball should be while upright, it makes pocketing much easier because the shooter lines up to it. Not to mention, it helps in detemining the track line/tangent line.
As one former sparmate of Willie Mosconi asked me, " How are you going to pocket consistently if you don't even know where the cb has to be upon contact?"
Really, I think everyone subconsciously use the ghost ball.
More should use it consciously imo. After all, it's dead center of your dominant eye and bridge hand ( when not appling english ).

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Hey Tracy, to be honest with you, I don't use a ghost-ball technique or even aim at a specific point on the ball. In my opinion, the ghost-ball is merely a tool used to explain what is occuring during the collision, that's all.

That's interesting Jude. Could you describe it, in a little more detail?

Tracy

 

[ManifestEcstacy]

Well, i guess some of that helped me out... thanks for all the neat little diagrams, that was fun (seriously) and I guess all I really can do is practice.. finding the best way to do so I guess will just be up to me.