practice aim

[Jude Rosenstock]

That's interesting Jude. Could you describe it, in a little more detail?

Tracy

The best way I can describe it is this:

Do you know when you're watching someone play, you know exactly when they've pocketed a ball BEFORE the collision? You know this, from your chair, without ever really thinking about what the proper contact point is. Your subconscious mind has already done the calculations for you. In fact, every shot you've ever seen, played, dreamt is recorded in the subconscious mind.

All I do is think about how I want to pocket the ball in a given pocket. I look at the object ball and wait until a point feels comfortable. It's hard to explain but it usually appears as though I'm undercutting the ball. Literally, most of my shots feel like I'm aiming at the whole ball. I trust it, nonetheless. I get down, take a few strokes. If everything feels centered, I fire away. If there's any doubt, I get up and start again.

When I started doing this, it was a bit nerve-racking. It's the ultimate "letting-go" when you no longer calculate your point-of-aim but that's in essence what I've done. In the beginning, you question it quite a bit and will flip-flop between system and feel but if you devote some time to doing this in practice, you'll quickly realize that "feel" is far superior to any system. Spend some time with it and your confidence grows very quickly. Pocketing almost feels automatic and positioning becomes your conscious focus.

 

[MaryD]

Since the contact point is the point on an object ball furthest from the pocket, and the cueballs contact point is the point closest to the same pocket... If these two points are aimed at each other the shot will go in the hole.

Tracy

Hey - I've never seen that explained exactly that way. I like the visualization. Thanks.

M

 

[Boro Nut]

Since the contact point is the point on an object ball furthest from the pocket, and the cueballs contact point is the point closest to the same pocket. If these two points are aimed at each other the shot will go in the hole.

It may well go in the hole if it's close enough and the holes are big, but it doesn't stop it being wrong. If you do need to use a system like this then the correct contact point on the cue ball corresponds the point parallel to the object ball potting angle, not the angle from cue ball to the pocket. The greater the cut angle the more wrong you are.

Boro Nut

 

[Boro Nut]

When I started doing this, it was a bit nerve-racking. It's the ultimate "letting-go" when you no longer calculate your point-of-aim but that's in essence what I've done. In the beginning, you question it quite a bit and will flip-flop between system and feel but if you devote some time to doing this in practice, you'll quickly realize that "feel" is far superior to any system. Spend some time with it and your confidence grows very quickly. Pocketing almost feels automatic and positioning becomes your conscious focus.

Exactly. It sounds vague, but it's incredibly accurate, and far superior to any aiming system. When I was learning to drive I looked at the road just in front of the car and was all over the shop. When you are an experienced driver you drive into the far distance as straight as an arrow without thinking. Stop looking at the road in front of the bonnet.

Boro Nut

 

[RSB-Refugee]

It may well go in the hole if it's close enough and the holes are big, but it doesn't stop it being wrong. If you do need to use a system like this then the correct contact point on the cue ball corresponds the point parallel to the object ball potting angle, not the angle from cue ball to the pocket. The greater the cut angle the more wrong you are.

I was just trying to illustrate that not everyone looks at the same thing, in the same way. We are all different and if something works for someone, I am not going to scrutinize it, just because I don't understand it. By the way, it does work very well. There has to be subconscious adjustments for it to work, but that is true of every method. IMO

Tracy

 

[ccriderone]

The ghost ball is absolutely a great "tool" imo.
If one knows where the ghost ball should be while upright, it makes pocketing much easier because the shooter lines up to it. Not to mention, it helps in detemining the track line/tangent line.
******************************************************
Oh boy, here we go again. When I give any student a lesson, I drag out the ghost ball gadgets, the aim circles and the elephant balls and show them how the ghost ball system is another example of bad teachers who did not have a fargin clue. It does not work period. I then explain why, and what you now have to do in order to make it work. Without full knowledge of throw and cling, the ghost ball system is a bad system. I use a lazer device to teach the correct system.

So much of pool is taught wrong and this is one of them, along with the draw, the follow, the break, its no wonder most of you can't run 3 fookin balls most of the time. Its not that you are bad players, you just have bad teachers, teaching flawed systems that doom you. Relax, I am here, to un doom you.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

So much of pool is taught wrong and this is one of them, along with the draw, the follow, the break, its no wonder most of you can't run 3 fookin balls most of the time. Its not that you are bad players, you just have bad teachers, teaching flawed systems that doom you. Relax, I am here, to un doom you.

Is that you, Larry? Fast Larry of Atlanta?
Here we go again.

Tracy

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Has TEACHERMAN or FL been brought back to life????

His posts about buying bums porterhouses and bustin' heads with axe handles made me suspicious, but this one, convinced me.

Tracy

 

[JLW]

The best way I can describe it is this:

Do you know when you're watching someone play, you know exactly when they've pocketed a ball BEFORE the collision? You know this, from your chair, without ever really thinking about what the proper contact point is. Your subconscious mind has already done the calculations for you. In fact, every shot you've ever seen, played, dreamt is recorded in the subconscious mind.

All I do is think about how I want to pocket the ball in a given pocket. I look at the object ball and wait until a point feels comfortable. It's hard to explain but it usually appears as though I'm undercutting the ball. Literally, most of my shots feel like I'm aiming at the whole ball. I trust it, nonetheless. I get down, take a few strokes. If everything feels centered, I fire away. If there's any doubt, I get up and start again.

When I started doing this, it was a bit nerve-racking. It's the ultimate "letting-go" when you no longer calculate your point-of-aim but that's in essence what I've done. In the beginning, you question it quite a bit and will flip-flop between system and feel but if you devote some time to doing this in practice, you'll quickly realize that "feel" is far superior to any system. Spend some time with it and your confidence grows very quickly. Pocketing almost feels automatic and positioning becomes your conscious focus.

Jude, sounds like you have a very similar experience to mine when aiming. Once I began shooting this way, cut shots began to appear somehow more straight in. Hard to explain, but maybe someone else here can articulate it better. I think it may be similar to your experience of feeling like you are undercutting the ball.

I've also noticed that I can usually tell as I'm in the act of shooting whether I will make the shot. Again, hard to explain, but I've experienced it first hand many times. I'm with you. I think that after you play for a while, your body begins to know where and how to aim. You just have to trust it.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, sounds like you have a very similar experience to mine when aiming. Once I began shooting this way, cut shots began to appear somehow more straight in. Hard to explain, but maybe someone else here can articulate it better. I think it may be similar to your experience of feeling like you are undercutting the ball.

I've also noticed that I can usually tell as I'm in the act of shooting whether I will make the shot. Again, hard to explain, but I've experienced it first hand many times. I'm with you. I think that after you play for a while, your body begins to know where and how to aim. You just have to trust it.

Well, what's interesting (and this will really cook your noodle) is that the moment you begin to truly let go, you'll realize that adjustments are almost impossible. By that, I mean once you've made up your mind as to what you want to do, trying to make a conscious adjustment will have a terribly negative effect on the outcome of the shot. In essence, you realize how little you consciously DO control.

There was this one shot I was continually having problems with. I kept undercutting the ball and decided to try and cut it a little thinner. My adjustments ended up causing an even fuller hit. See, with every conscious adjustment, my subconscious was trying to compensate. Do this and you end up steering as you stroke through the ball (sound familiar?).

So instead, I looked at the whole ball, decided what felt right (once again, it looked like I'd undercut) and I ended up cutting it right in the pocket. It was VERY STRANGE and backwards but the moment I relaxed and looked at the whole object ball, I cut it exactly where I intended. This all made me realize that there are SO MANY things happening as we examine a shot and get into our stance. We are marvels at hand-eye coordination when you really think about it. It was then I realized that I'm going to allow 10,000 years of human evolution to dictate what's right instead of 100 years of billiard research.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Warning: Beginners, don't read this post...

It was then I realized that I'm going to allow 10,000 years of human evolution to dictate what's right instead of 100 years of billiard research.

...it could be harmful to the development of your game.
OK, you lost me there, Darwin. I do strongly agree however, that compensating consciously can mess a shot up big time. It is my "double compensation syndrome theory". I contend that, if you try to consciously correct for throw (or anything, for that matter) your subconscious may not be in on the plan, and you end up double compensating. Beginners, if you got to this point and you find your game goes into the crapper, from reading this, remember, you were warned.

Tracy

 

[drivermaker]

The best way I can describe it is this:

Do you know when you're watching someone play, you know exactly when they've pocketed a ball BEFORE the collision? You know this, from your chair, without ever really thinking about what the proper contact point is. Your subconscious mind has already done the calculations for you. In fact, every shot you've ever seen, played, dreamt is recorded in the subconscious mind.

All I do is think about how I want to pocket the ball in a given pocket. I look at the object ball and wait until a point feels comfortable. It's hard to explain but it usually appears as though I'm undercutting the ball. Literally, most of my shots feel like I'm aiming at the whole ball. I trust it, nonetheless. I get down, take a few strokes. If everything feels centered, I fire away. If there's any doubt, I get up and start again.

When I started doing this, it was a bit nerve-racking. It's the ultimate "letting-go" when you no longer calculate your point-of-aim but that's in essence what I've done. In the beginning, you question it quite a bit and will flip-flop between system and feel but if you devote some time to doing this in practice, you'll quickly realize that "feel" is far superior to any system. Spend some time with it and your confidence grows very quickly. Pocketing almost feels automatic and positioning becomes your conscious focus.

Jude...a couple of questions for you.... (1) how do you teach this to someone?
(2) how easily transferable do you think it would be to all different skill levels?
(3) how do you explain or account for hitting the ball fuller and still have it go in without some sort of throw, backhand motion to reroute the cue, or tuck and roll?
(4) What do you think would happen to the game of most players that tried this and abandoned everything else?

 

[sonia]

The Invisible Dream

All contact points are invisible on any and all type of shot. Also, picking an imaginary spot on a cushion for all banks is another invisible task. Trying to find contact points on a two or three ball combination shot. No sane way to play pool, when there is a very easy way to play without anything being invisible. But, players spend their entire energy basing their entire game on something they will never see. Might as well get a cane that is colored red and white, and tap the ball to sound out where the hell the sound is coming from, or going to.


Sonia

 

[Flex]

Not to be argumentative but I *believe* a contact point is essential...we used to say the ball won't go if it doesn't move...but with all the new paradigms these days I'll admit that the calculation itself might simply make the ball disappear, giving a player the impression the ball was pocketed. Sure makes me want to disappear folks don't realize that the key to this sport is practice, practice, practice. And Ohh...did I mention that conscious practice will answer most of these questions.

Forgive me please if I jump in right here, and say a word about this, even if I haven't read all the posts that have already followed.

I agree that contact point is important, very important. HOWEVER, I suggest that a more complete perspective on this problem can be seen if you take two very different object balls, one say a Centennial, the other the cheap junkie balls that often come with a table, and try your cut shot on each of them. Set up the shot, mark the table with a chalk mark so that you can replicate the cue ball and object ball precisely, and shoot the cue ball into the object ball exactly the same way: with center ball, with follow, or draw, whatever you like, and SEE IF THE OBJECT BALL GOES EXACTLY WHERE YOU THINK IT WILL IN EACH CASE. In some cases, when the contact point is EXACTLY the same, the object ball will follow a different line.

Don't want to complicate it too much, but the different ways the balls throw is HUGE.

Also, it's VERY possible that someone is inadventently putting a bit of spin on the cue ball, and unintentional throw will be the result.

Just because someone shoots the same shot 6 times or 10 times or 50 times doesn't mean they'll always get the same result, because their hit on the cue ball can vary.

Until the novice or newbie understands this, life at the pool table can be very frustrating.

Best,

Flex

 

[TheConArtist]

I recall Efren saying that he aims the edge of the cueball at the contact point on the objectball. I do the same thing its hard to explain, and just another aiming method crowding up your mind, But if i am going to cut the ball to the right i use the right edge of the cueball and aim it at the contact point on the objectball, Cole 'TheConArtist'

 

[Flex]

...it could be harmful to the development of your game.
OK, you lost me there, Darwin. I do strongly agree however, that compensating consciously can mess a shot up big time. It is my "double compensation syndrome theory". I contend that, if you try to consciously correct for throw (or anything, for that matter) your subconscious may not be in on the plan, and you end up double compensating. Beginners, if you got to this point and you find your game goes into the crapper, from reading this, remember, you were warned.

Tracy

Set up a force follow shot, with the object ball one diamond diagonally away from the corner pocket, the cue ball in a straight line behind it, one diamond away, and shoot the object ball straight at the corner pocket, with top right or left force follow, REALLY HARD, spin that cue ball, pocket the object ball, the cue ball force follows to the right or left of the corner pocket as the case may be, shoots over to the adjacent rail, and comes back down table. If you try that shot without any compensation, guess where the object ball will probably go?? OFF the TABLE... you gotta compensate, and it better be deliberate...

Cheers!

Flex

 

[JLW]

Jude-

With regard to trying to steer the ball, that seems to happen to me when I'm not decisive about what I'm about to do at the table; when I don't commit to the shot.

As for all the discussion about where and how to aim, I really believe that most of my aiming is done before I even get down over the shot. It's funny, because I think a lot of people have almost a reverse approach to it. They get down over a shot and then start thinking about where to aim. I look at the shot as I approach the table and get a sense of where the two balls are in relation to one another. And by the time I get to the CB, I pretty much know where I need to hit the OB. Once I decide exactly where I want to hit the CB, my body basically lines me up correctly without my having to really think about it. From there, I just basically try to make sure my right arm is aligned with my right eye (I concentrate on letting my forearm hang straight down) and I'm stroking the CB where I want. Sound similar to your experience? Or not? I'm really curious to know.

And yeah Richard, I agree that anyone just learning to play the game will probably not be able to shoot this way. I think you should have pretty solid fundamentals before trying to do this. It doesn't matter where you aim if your stroke is off. I do, however, think that most of the people on this board would be pleasantly surprised at their results if they tried shooting this way for a few days. I bought a table a year or so ago and started playing several hours a day. What eventually happened was that I would rush around sometimes mindlessly picking off easy shots (not really a good habit to get into I'll admit). But I noticed that I was making a lot of these shots without even consciously aiming. I was just walking up to the shot and shooting. And they were going in.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Teaching this to someone? That's a really good question but not impossible to answer. The underlying problem with aiming systems is that it forces the shooter to aim at something their not comfortable with. In reality, this is what causes steering. Consciously, they may be committed to what they're doing but subconsciously, they know it's wrong. I'd start by telling my student to aim at whatever felt comfortable to them. I'd tell them to let go of any calculations they might have made and rely on the fact that they will naturally fall into the correct place to make the ball. Then, I would tell them to let go of judging the shot based on the outcome. Missing shouldn't be labeled as bad. It's part of the learning process. You're subconscious is automatically processing information that will eventually yield the desired outcome. Although offering an artificial approach to aiming might gain immediate satisfactory results, eventually, a ceiling is reached where the student no longer is capable of calculating an appropriate point of aim due to the difficulty of the situation.

With aiming techniques, there are so many factors that come into play. Depth perception is a huge factor. What may be apparent from 2 feet away is not going to be identical from 10 feet away and the variations inbetween are infinite. Only the subconscious is capable of handling such a task. Proper and repetitive mechanics are absolutely vital since the brain is going to need to be working from a similar point of reference and once that's established, these infinite variabilities can be conquered.

It is the perspective of the child-like mind prior to when we began to rely on pre-packaged information that was ready to absorb. The child literally will just hit the ball and accept all results. His volition will be directed at pocketing the ball but he'll feel little frustration and make few adjustments if he fails to do so. The same would be taught to the pool student. Direct your will at what you wish to accomplish but let go of a conscious calculation. Simply get down and aim at the point that feels comfortable, regardless as to what you think the result might be. "Letting go" means to seperate yourself from the outcome. Don't rely on pocketing for approval. You want to FEEL comfortable and allow pocketing to come in time. The adjustments will be small but if you allow it to happen on its own, it will. You can't force it. The brain needs to make the proper connections and be able to calculate exactly what it's preceiving. The more you allow the child from within to play the game, the faster you move through the initial stages of the learning curve.


I began to commit myself to this approach a little over six months ago. I have to say, not only have I had significant improvement in a short time(which is rare for players around my level) but I feel I'm still improving rapidly and my confidence has accompanied the climb. Really, I'm not overwhelmed anymore. I find myself more and more capable of actually recalling each mistake I make over the course of a set and feel as though I can focus more on strategical elements. Like I said, it's a learning process and mistakes are par for the course but far less than ever before, I find myself falling in-stroke and in much less time and for longer durations. If you're looking for a far more comprehensive read on the subject, I suggest reading The Inner Game of Tennis. I hear it's much like The Zen of Archery however, I never read the latter. The Inner Game of Tennis is actually a fairly short read that you can probably knock-off in an afternoon.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I recall Efren saying that he aims the edge of the cueball at the contact point on the objectball.

Efren said that or one person selling lessons quoted it?

 

[TheConArtist]

Efren said that or one person selling lessons quoted it?

i think i read this on the link aiming secrets from the pros. Cole