Predator 314 or Original Shaft?

hackerda

hackerda

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am getting a Jeff Olney cue with a 3/8 x 10 pin and one shaft. Should I get the Predator or stick with the originalshaft? I hear his shafts fit very snug and they play very well. Also, I have 2 Southwest cues on order and a Hercek (8+ year wait). Should I get Predators for them as well? Right now I shoot with a Meucci PP2 with a red dot shaft.:rolleyes:

thanks,
dean
 
I have always felt that you should give the cuemaker's shaft a try first. The reason you choose a particular maker's cue is because you like the hit. Adding an aftermarket shaft changes all that.

JMHO.

Lisa
 
I totally agree with Lisa. And if I were Jeff Olney I would cringe at the fact that you're even considering this before even trying the orignal shaft.
Nice choice on the Olney by the way. You might forget all about Predator shafts once your new cue arrives and you feel how it plays.
 
Hello Dean,

You will get conflicting opinions on this but here's mine.

First, according to Predator...and I doubt they are lying...about 65% of the top ranked pros use the shaft. That is a huge an I would guess unprecedented percentage of players using a SINGLE brand of shaft.

Forgive me for telling you what you might already know but...

Essentially, the shaft reduces cue stick induced deflction (somethimes called "cue ball deflection" or "squirt").

The tests show that on a hard, long (50 inch) shot using maximum side english...the vast majority of "conventional" shafts will cause the CB to deflect up to 60 mm off line but that such deflection will be dramatically less with the Predator shaft (By the way, the Z shaft performs better regarding squirt than the 314)

But wait...How many times do you shoot 50 inch shots HARD with full side english? Not very often. And some top pros and teachers will tell you that they almost never use more than a single tip of side and often not more than a half tip.

On such shots CB deflection becomes MUCH less of an issue. BUT...it is STILL an issue. How many times have you seen top pros miss a shot that beginners would make 90% of the time? Sometimes those misses are just due to a loss of concentration but A LOT of the time they have used side...intentionally or unintentionally and failed to adjust their aim to take squirt into account.

The FORCE of the shot is a CRITICAL variable and the relationship between force and squirt vs. the effects of side english on THROW causes major confusion...and missed shots. Here's the deal.

On SOFT shots there is very little squirt so no aim adjustment is required or desirable. At the same time, THROW caused by the "gear effect" on collissions of spheres is MAXIMIZED...i.e. Slow shot=Maximum Throw and vice versa.

Where players get into trouble is that they habitually use some amount of outside english on cut shots...not a bad idea but beyond the scope of these comments...and they adopt a SINGLE point of aim for a given cut angle.

BUT...if they shoot softer than normal then the THROW effect will cause the shot to go off the intended line...say, left english on a cut to the right. Using "normal" force the shot goes in. But if shot very softly, the left english will throw the OB more to the right than expected and the shot may be missed.

But on HARD shots the EXACT OPPOSITE happens. Due to FORCE that same left english that will deflect the OB to the right will actually drive to OB to the LEFT because the CB has been caused to veer off its intended path TO THE RIGHT and will therefore strike the OB more to the right than expected forcing to OB to the LEFT. At the same time, throw will be minimized.

So for the same cut angle and english, the OB can be caused to travel either right or left of its intended line resulting misses that cause the shooter to say..."I can't BELIEVE I missed that shot."

Getting back to the shaft question...given the above, it makes GREAT sense to reduce CB deflection as much as possible in order to reduce that variable to a minimum since the more variables there are the greater the chances of missing the shot.

Just for grins, I borrowed a friends very high end Joss a few weeks ago and played with it. My accuracy went into the DUMPER...missing long shots by half a diamond is some cases. That is NOT a "put down" to Joss or any other fine custom cue...It just suggests that in using them, you have to program you mind to adjust your point of aim to ac**** for the greater CB deflection variable...and then you have to actually execute the FORCE you intend to apply.

That issue is reduced with the Predator shaft. I own a 314 but am considering "upgrading" to the newer Z Shaft technology which is said to improve on the 314's deflection characteristics.

For the record, I have no connection whatsoever with the Predator company. I was just motivated by their advertising and player recommendations several years ago and boutht one. I would not change shafts and all my "original" shafts are stored safely away in a closet.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Jim
 
You just said yourself why you dont need a 314/Z Shaft!!!

Since when did anyone ever need to hit the ball that hard that the throw was that bad :eek:

At the end of the day I believe that by not using a Predator shaft you are teaching yourself better habits - ie not being lazy and getting back up to adjust shots etc.

I know it sounds silly to use a shaft that is not so forgiving, but it means that you will be more consistent in controlling that little white ball.... AND if you make the pot with the Predator, but have adjusted I would be quite confident in saying you will get yourself into trouble (lack of position).
 
how does the Predator compare with the Universal shaft, which also claims anti-squirt technology?
 
cuetrip said:
I totally agree with Lisa. And if I were Jeff Olney I would cringe at the fact that you're even considering this before even trying the orignal shaft.
Nice choice on the Olney by the way. You might forget all about Predator shafts once your new cue arrives and you feel how it plays.
Click to expand...
Please don't get me wrong, I am most deffinately planning on using the original shaft for a while, if not forever. I was just wondering what everyone else thought. I most definately don't want to offend anyone especially the man making my cue.

thanks,
dean
 
berlowmj said:
how does the Predator compare with the Universal shaft, which also claims anti-squirt technology?
Click to expand...
I purchased a Universal Shaft for my Meucci. I did notice a much lower deflection, but I get so much deflection with my red dot that I wasn't shocked that it played better. The problem that I found with the Universal Shaft that I bought was that the ferrule needed to be reset about a month after I bought it, and a few months after that the ferrule cracked! I don't know if I was the unlucky one or if this was an on-going problem.

dean
 
If you've become used to normal deflection shafts, and looking at the cues you are talking about having on order I will assume your a pretty serious player, you may not want to bother.

Then on the other hand, if you can afford all of those cues you can probably afford to pick up a 314 for one or two of them and if you don't like it you can easily sell it to others who do like it.

I personally use a 314-2 and used a 314-1 before this but I was not "serious" about pool before using a 314 product so for me, I'm used to the 314's and plan to stick with them but if someone is used to a conventional shaft then why go through the hassle of relearning to use a predator.
 
JonoNZ...<<Since when did anyone ever need to hit the ball that hard that the throw was that bad >>

Since the game of pool was invented...in fact.

You do NOT need to hit SUPER hard to cause meaningful deflection which is caused by a combination of side and force.

It is true that most amateurs use WAY more side than they should but it is also true that some shots require a lot of english and force in order to get shape...and when you need it, you need it.

On longer shots, even minor amounts of squirt can make you miss your point of aim by a quarter ball in which case you will miss by a mile.

The idea is...why live with a variable that has to be adjusted for when you don't have to? Or, at least, why not minimize the variable?

Hey, you can learn to live with a warped shaft too, so why worry about it if you have one. Just learn to adjust...while everyone else is learning how to improve.

The MAJORITY of top touring pros are using Predator shafts...or Predator is engaging in false advertising. I think the odds are that they are not which suggests that the technology is being WIDELY accpeted by those who know best.

By the way, if you include OTHER high tech shafts (those that are NOT fashioned from a single piece of wood...like Cue Tec etc.) then the "non-traditional" shaft usage among the top pros is WAY higher than the 65% that Predator claims.

I mean no disrespect to the GREAT custom cue makers of the world...but time and technology march on.

Regards,
Jim
 
hackerda said:
I am getting a Jeff Olney cue with a 3/8 x 10 pin and one shaft. Should I get the Predator or stick with the originalshaft? I hear his shafts fit very snug and they play very well. Also, I have 2 Southwest cues on order and a Hercek (8+ year wait). Should I get Predators for them as well? Right now I shoot with a Meucci PP2 with a red dot shaft.:rolleyes:

thanks,
dean
Click to expand...

There is no right annswer to your question as it depends on individual preference.

I used to play with Predator and OB-1 shafts. But now, I play with original shafts on certain cues.

I have a lot of cues ... and on certain cues, I can't play with the original shaft as I suck as a player and can't adjust to the defelction. If I want to hit with these cues I used to screw on low deflection shafts.

I have a nice Olney and on this cue I can play with his shaft fine. They deflect a bit but not enough that I can't adjust.
 
berlowmj said:
how does the Predator compare with the Universal shaft, which also claims anti-squirt technology?
Click to expand...
Does that shaft come with a screw on tip as well??? I hear those are convenient to have too... lol The Smart-tip...
 
JonoNZ said:
Since when did anyone ever need to hit the ball that hard that the throw was that bad :eek:

At the end of the day I believe that by not using a Predator shaft you are teaching yourself better habits - ie not being lazy and getting back up to adjust shots etc.

I know it sounds silly to use a shaft that is not so forgiving, but it means that you will be more consistent in controlling that little white ball.... AND if you make the pot with the Predator, but have adjusted I would be quite confident in saying you will get yourself into trouble (lack of position).
Click to expand...
Being someone who has used the 314 shaft for a couple of year, I would have to agree with you... Because of the low delection, I did not realize how crooked my stroke was... Although its tough, I have swithed back to using my shcon shaft... And I will not dare put the 314 on my scruggs... lol... I am just waiting to have a new tip put on... Then the Scruggs will be my primary playing cue...
 
There are two factors regarding composite (low deflection) shafts that aren't given enough mention.

1) Feel -- Whether a laminated shaft does or doesn't reduce reflection, what none of them have is the feel of a solid, well designed solid wood shaft. That feel provides feedback that affects one's touch and control of the cueball.

2) Stroke fluidity -- No matter what shaft is used, deflection (squirt) is dramatically reduced by a smooth, fluid delivery of the cue. Accordingly, there is much more deflection from a hard, abrupt hit. If a shaft reduces deflection, the player never learns to deliver the cue smoothly because poor technique is rewarded. Watch any top player and it's obvious how much smoother they deliver the cue than an amateur. The better the player, the smoother the delivery. It's a constant.

I believe laminated shafts are wonderful for lower tier players because it helps them overcome the complexities of applying english and the attendant corrections required. But the downside is it encourages poor technique. So if a player is serious about achieving his or her highest level, a solid shaft that rewards smoothness and penalizes a jabby stroke, will ultimately help guide a player. The same is true for a stiff playing cue over a whippy cue.
 
Pinocchio said:
Are 314-2's made in China?
Click to expand...

I believe Predator moved operations to China several months ago. The question is...does it make a difference?

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would order a nice custom cue, and then consider putting a production shaft on it!:eek:
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
I'm still trying to figure out why someone would order a nice custom cue, and then consider putting a production shaft on it!:eek:
Steve
Click to expand...

Yup, I was wondering that myself. With a Southwest, play with the original shafts before even considering something else. With the Olney, did you only get one shaft? Why?
 
Pushout said:
Yup, I was wondering that myself. With a Southwest, play with the original shafts before even considering something else. With the Olney, did you only get one shaft? Why?
Click to expand...
Yes, I only got the one shaft. Right now with Christmas and birthdays comeing on, and I have 3 kids and I'm the only one working now. The one shaft was my only option for now.
 
This has to be a joke topic. :eek:

Anyone that would put any aftermarket mass produced junk shaft on a Southwest cue or any other well made cue needs to stick with a "Lucassi" or some other junk cookie cutter cue butt.

65% of what Pros and in what world use predator shafts? Because it's not the same tours I play. Not that many use them unless they have a Predator cue.

(I just bought a Scruggs for $180 because it didn't have the original shaft...some brain surgeon replaced it with a Predator shaft and made the cue close to worthless :()

just my beliefs.

FL Dave
 
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