Predator Shaft Vs. Traditional Shaft

Patso44

Patso44

Underdog
Silver Member
I have been shooting pool for over 7 years. This is the first year I have ever started playing with a predator shaft. I definitely can see a difference in my game. My accuracy is closer to perfect and I seem to think I can pull off shots more efficiently than before.

The problem is that I also feel that some of the new technology (Predator and low deflection shafts) that has risen in pool in the last 10 or 20 years has taken honor away from this game. I know a lot of people that do not play with the predator shaft because they believe it is non-traditional. Mosconi, Fats, Crane and Balsis (to name a few) didn't use low deflection shafts.

Better technology has came out and created a better game but is it all worth it? I am on the fence with this issue and need insight with this matter.....What do you think?



Thanks for replies in advance.

Patrick
 
I understand what you are trying to say, but to use Mosconi, Balsis et.al. to support your logic is a stretch. I believe they all passed away (or were not playing at all) when LD shafts were developed.

The question remains had LD shafts been invented in the 40's when these players were at their peak would they have used them? Who knows.

As far as myself, I have two LD shafts, a Tiger X and an OB1 I have used both from time to time, but to be honest, I don't notice any difference in my game using them vs a plain wood shaft.

I prefer to play with the shaft that comes with the cue.
 
Have to disagree with original poster. While LD shafts are certainly a different option for players, I don't think they made the game easier or take anything away from the game. You still have to adjust when using English, just not as much. But for some players, having the range of adjustments be smaller helps them be more accurate with English.

Imagine you had a regular shaft that had a full ball (2") or more of deflection across a table length - quite a bit. But if you could adjust as needed for English accurately, then it wouldn't really matter, right?

I like my Predator, am used to it, but I'm not convinced there's not something better out there, perhaps even with more deflection. As long as I could figure out how to adjust like I do now, it wouldn't matter.

Scott
 
Reply to posts

There is one issue and one benefit of LD shafts that I noticed. The benefit is that the learning curve of adjusting for deflection with english has diminished. A few great players in my area have been playing over 40 years. They invested a lot of years in learning to master deflection with a traditional shaft. In my opinion the results of LD shafts have cut down the learning curve to master that adjustment.

In my opinion if I wanted to take a beginner and teach him/her the game, I might give them a LD shaft to increase the learning curve of adjustment so that they may succeed much faster.


The one issue I also see is for anyone that plays with more than one cue. I have a Doug Patrick and a Tim Scruggs that I interchange once in a while because I love the way they both hit. Now if I continue to play with both I would have to buy a LD Shaft for both cues, small fee to enjoy both cues in their entirety but still a price to pay. It seems like a childish indecision but it is still a issue.

Thank you for the posts!!


Patrick
 
IANAI (I am not an instructor) but this is a big question in various sports; major league baseball, for example, has been going back-and-forth over instant replay.

At the end of the day, you have to make your own decisions but I don't see where the line would be for traditional vs. non-traditional equipment. Mosconi's fabled run was on an 8 foot table (I believe) but now everyone drools over 9' Diamonds with Simonis 860, measle cue balls, $30 chalk, phenolic-tipped jump/break cues, etc., etc..

While I'm no billiard historian, I seriously doubt that Mosconi et. al., would have hesitated to try new technologies that could have improved their game and adopt those that did. After all, their livelihood depended on being successful.
 
krupa said:
IANAI (I am not an instructor) but this is a big question in various sports; major league baseball, for example, has been going back-and-forth over instant replay.

At the end of the day, you have to make your own decisions but I don't see where the line would be for traditional vs. non-traditional equipment. Mosconi's fabled run was on an 8 foot table (I believe) but now everyone drools over 9' Diamonds with Simonis 860, measle cue balls, $30 chalk, phenolic-tipped jump/break cues, etc., etc..

While I'm no billiard historian, I seriously doubt that Mosconi et. al., would have hesitated to try new technologies that could have improved their game and adopt those that did. After all, their livelihood depended on being successful.
Click to expand...


Good Point!
 
Yes, equipment-wise very similar to advances in tennis (metal, then graphite, then composite racquets vs. wood) and metal "woods" vs. wood in golf. During those transitions a lot of people dismissed the new technology but eventually it was proven out and now there is a new standard. Change happens...

I don't think it's quite the same in pool, since I don't feel an LD shaft is that significantly better (if at all) vs. a traditional shaft. I agree that because of the properties of the shaft it might be easier for a beginning player to have more immediate success when using english. But many people also prefer the feel and hit of the traditional shafts and are willing to sacrifice a reduction in deflection for that original feel. To your other point, if you have several cues it can be difficult to adjust back and forth unless you outfit all of your cues with similar shafts.

If they are ever able to engineer a true zero deflection shaft, I'll be the first in line. Until then, I think it's just a matter of personal preference as to whether a LD shaft helps your game/confidence or not.

Scott
 
there is certainly a lot of misinformation out there regarding cues and squirt

#1 hollow plywood cues are not low deflection.. they are high deflection the shaft deflects MORE than normal resulting in less squirt on the CB. ( if the people selling these things don't even bother to try and get their own terminology right.. how much effort do you think they are really putting into improving your personal game)

#2 how do you know the squirt characteristics of the old timers cues? low end mass is not modern technology

many of them kept 1 cue for the majority of their careers.. lightly sanding the shaft daily... lose a little bit of ferrule each time you got a new tip..

before long they stumbled across the 12 mm pro taper by simply maintaining their cues.( why do you think its called a pro taper???) slowly taking off enough material over enough time (the fabled end mass) I am sure the cues ended up quite low squirt. and when they finally snapped they told the cue maker to give me another one like that.. and the cue maker did the best he could

#3 no piece of wood ( or assemblage of wood scraps and glue) can turn a bad line into a good line..

these things are sold as if they replaced practice... they don't

I recommend players do what the old timers did... buy one cue and stick with it..you will adapt to it and over time it will adapt to you..

you cannot buy familiarity.. and you cannot buy practice..

The long slow road is the only one that leads all the way to the top of the mountain..

there are no shortcuts regardless of what the AD says

the new cuetec shaft ad says less distortion??? WTF IS DISTORTION?? I think they just make this stuff up..
 
Last edited:
softshot said:
there is certainly a lot of misinformation out there regarding cues and squirt

#1 hollow plywood cues are not low deflection.. they are high deflection the shaft deflects MORE than normal resulting in less squirt on the CB. ( if the people selling these things don't even bother to try and get their own terminology right.. how much effort do you think they are really putting into improving your personal game)

#2 how do you know the squirt characteristics of the old timers cues? low end mass is not modern technology

many of them kept 1 cue for the majority of their careers.. lightly sanding the shaft daily... lose a little bit of ferrule each time you got a new tip..

before long they stumbled across the 12 mm pro taper by simply maintaining their cues.( why do you think its called a pro taper???) slowly taking off enough material over enough time (the fabled end mass) I am sure the cues ended up quite low squirt. and when they finally snapped they told the cue maker to give me another one like that.. and the cue maker did the best he could

#3 no piece of wood ( or assemblage of wood scraps and glue) can turn a bad line into a good line..

these things are sold as if they replaced practice... they don't

I recommend players do what the old timers did... buy one cue and stick with it..you will adapt to it and over time it will adapt to you..

you cannot buy familiarity.. and you cannot buy practice..

The long slow road is the only one that leads all the way to the top of the mountain..

there are no shortcuts regardless of what the AD says

the new cuetec shaft ad says less distortion??? WTF IS DISTORTION?? I think they just make this stuff up..
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you 100%!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
What's the difference?

The last custom cue I bought came with 2
LD shafts made by the cue maker as original
equipment. They play exactly like my 314-2s
that I already own and can screw on the new
cue.

Would the OP have a problem with these shafts
since they are OEM and LD?

My $.02.
 
Ha

Neil said:
Takes away honor?????? So, you are still using a mace instead of a cue?? If you do use a cue, and dishonor yourself, surely you don't have one of those leather tips on your cue, do you????
Click to expand...

Haha, good point!
 
Patso44 said:
I have been shooting pool for over 7 years. This is the first year I have ever started playing with a predator shaft. I definitely can see a difference in my game. My accuracy is closer to perfect and I seem to think I can pull off shots more efficiently than before.

The problem is that I also feel that some of the new technology (Predator and low deflection shafts) that has risen in pool in the last 10 or 20 years has taken honor away from this game. I know a lot of people that do not play with the predator shaft because they believe it is non-traditional. Mosconi, Fats, Crane and Balsis (to name a few) didn't use low deflection shafts.

Better technology has came out and created a better game but is it all worth it? I am on the fence with this issue and need insight with this matter.....What do you think?



Thanks for replies in advance.

Patrick
Click to expand...

I think I know what you mean, Patrick. In all sports there are pieces of equipment that are considered illegal. In golf, club heads that surpass a certain size are illegal. However, the average club head is now much larger than it was in the earlier days.

Jump cues are legal in World Standardized Rules, yet jump cues under 40 inches long are illegal. It's often difficult to tell which piece of equipment should be considered to be progress for the sport and which is considered to go a little too far, and I'm sure golf has to deal with the same problem.

In pool, with laminated shafts, the player still has to adjust to the shaft and still has to perform the necessary fundamentals correctly to execute the shots. I know players who hate the laminated shafts and can't adjust to them, so in their cases, they don't feel those shafts are spoilers in any way. Those illegal club head sizes in golf however, do actually compensate for flawed golf swings.
 
I don't think there is a club head in the world that could compensate for my slice.

The only thing that makes me hit a ball straight if there is water on the course. Then I hit it right into the drink.

:)


FranCrimi said:
Those illegal club head sizes in golf however, do actually compensate for flawed golf swings.
Click to expand...
 
Tony_in_MD said:
I don't think there is a club head in the world that could compensate for my slice.

The only thing that makes me hit a ball straight if there is water on the course. Then I hit it right into the drink.

:)
Click to expand...

Ha! That's pretty funny, Tony. Some of those illegal clubheads are so large, I'd be embarassed to carry one of them in my bag. Any larger, they'll be looking like cartoon characters on the tee.
 
Play with the shaft you feel good with!
And then:
Stay with it, and practice with it so that you know your material perfectly, and can handle it perfectly!

There is no shot outthere that can t be done just *with this one shaft*-no matter what kind of.
The pool-player-generation (not all, but many many :p) are looking for the holy gral. But instead of looking what becomes easier with this or that, they should practice and *beat the table-time-monster* (was so great Fran^^). To choose for example a 314-2 shaft or maybe a OB1 just because you can draw it perhaps a bit easier.....wrong decision- this more kind of looking for excuses for shot oyu haven t mastered yet. you have to make every single shot with your ONE cue- go out and practice hard :)
 
This discussion reminds me of new car safety. Obviously, people will never learn how to drive so the cars are made safer. However, people still crash and make other stupid moves on the road, even with the new technology.

You can't buy good driving habits or pool playing, sorry. It has to be learned through practice and instruction. Although Predator shafts do what they advertise, there's no magic in them.
 
Patso44 said:
... The problem is that I also feel that some of the new technology (Predator and low deflection shafts) that has risen in pool in the last 10 or 20 years has taken honor away from this game. I know a lot of people that do not play with the predator shaft because they believe it is non-traditional. Mosconi, Fats, Crane and Balsis (to name a few) didn't use low deflection shafts. ...
Click to expand...
I think we aren't sure of what the cues of those players were like, but I've been playing with a low-squirt shaft since about 1980. Many carom and snooker cues were low-squirt (compared to the average pool cue) long before that. Low-squirt in and of itself is not new.

("Squirt" is a better term to use for what the cue ball does for lots of reasons, but most people still refer to the phenomenon as "deflection" or sometimes more accurately, "cue ball deflection".)
 
I have been playing with ld shafts the last two years and just recently switched back to plain maple because of the feel. I noticed I don't have to aim any differently, I get more spin, and enjoy the feel of my cue now! I was playing with 314-2s
 
My 2 cents: Any professional level player or advanced player with an excellent stroke and fundamentals will play fine with whatever you give him or her as long as the equipment has a decent tip. Predator vs OB vs Tiger vs traditional shaft vs broomstick makes no difference. These players have excellent fundamentals, eyes, and stroke to adjust to whatever they play with.

The place where the predator and other aftermarket shafts shine is for the average joe, amateur player. A player who is just learning to use english or does not have a good enough stroke to get good english on a cue ball without miscuing will reap benefits from an aftermarket shaft. You can put a lot of juice on whitey without a good stroke if you use a predator shaft. A lot of players in my league use them and get tons of english on the ball, but can't hit a lick of draw without miscuing if they use a house cue.
 
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