Predator z2
- Thread starter dave_k
- Start date
It is the lowest deflection shaft available and imo very noticeable against the rest. It does have a stiffer hit compared to the regular OB (not the classic) and the 314^2.
With that said the taper is something that takes some getting used to. Sometimes I feel like I'm invincible with this shaft and other times (when I'm a little off) it is noticeably less forgiving compared to a 12.75-13 mm shaft. Just try one out and see what you think. I personally keep going back to a 12.75
With that said the taper is something that takes some getting used to. Sometimes I feel like I'm invincible with this shaft and other times (when I'm a little off) it is noticeably less forgiving compared to a 12.75-13 mm shaft. Just try one out and see what you think. I personally keep going back to a 12.75
I just got a good deal on a used one. I tried a friends a couple of years ago but didn't really care for it. But then again I didn't give it much of a test run. Well after shooting last night with the one I just got. I'm hitting real good with it. I'm taking it to the hall tonight. I'll report back later and let you know how it worked for me. Right now the big thing for me is the shaft size it feels like I'm playing with a pencil.
Yeah, z^2 can be a nightmare when the stroke is off and sometimes when it isn't. But going all the way down to OB classic?
This thing deflects a lot more than a 314^2 or OB1 must get confusing switching between those 2 shafts, they play so differently.
Predator Z2
I recently purchased a 314-2 and a Z2 shafts for my Schon STL4. To me, there is a noticable difference between the two. I use the Z2 for 14.1 and One Pocket; the 314 for games where I have to have the cue ball travel.
For me, the Z2 has the less deflection of any shaft I have ever used. When I am "On," I shoot fantastic with it; however, when I am "Off", the game can be a nightmare. I just calm my stroke down and it seems to help me get back into the swing of things. The other issues of the Z2 seems to be the taper (conical, I believe) and the smaller diameter (11.75 mm for me). I can really apply English with this shaft but have learned that less on the cue ball is more because of the really solid contact and hit.
I am still learning the shafts but I agree with the others. The Z2 can be an unforgiving shaft. :thumbup:
I recently purchased a 314-2 and a Z2 shafts for my Schon STL4. To me, there is a noticable difference between the two. I use the Z2 for 14.1 and One Pocket; the 314 for games where I have to have the cue ball travel.
For me, the Z2 has the less deflection of any shaft I have ever used. When I am "On," I shoot fantastic with it; however, when I am "Off", the game can be a nightmare. I just calm my stroke down and it seems to help me get back into the swing of things. The other issues of the Z2 seems to be the taper (conical, I believe) and the smaller diameter (11.75 mm for me). I can really apply English with this shaft but have learned that less on the cue ball is more because of the really solid contact and hit.
I am still learning the shafts but I agree with the others. The Z2 can be an unforgiving shaft. :thumbup:
Well I'm really impressed with the way my cue hit with the Z2 shaft on it. It seems easier to aim with it. I'm not sure why unless I'm focusing more because of the smaller shaft and tip. All I know for sure is I'm pocketing more balls with it. The cue ball just seem to hit the object right where I want it to. And yes I know thats what your supposed to do. It seems to have a lot firmer hit than my 314.
I don't really understand the points that people consistently make about the Z2 being inherently less accurate than other shafts, or spinning the ball more, etc. I realize the shaft is smaller and can give you the impression that you are hitting more of a pinpoint position, or that you can get more english because you can hit further out on the ball somehow. Several people in the pool hall have asked me what I shoot with, and when I say the Z2 they say "I can get a ton of spin with that but can't control it", or "I just can't hit the ball straight with that shaft".
I just don't agree with this, especially based on my own experience. I shoot with a Schon and up until a few years ago used the standard Schon shaft. Stiff, lots of deflection. I tried the Z2 and had to recalibrate some things but I liked it overall and been using it for about 2 years. I also have a 314-2, and I've switched between them and really see no difference in accuracy or spin production between the standard shaft, Z2, or 314-2. Or probably any other shaft for that matter. I can pop off my Z2 and use my 314-2 and hit any spin shot the same with either shaft. I do realize that because of the slight added diameter you feel like you are aiming slightly more toward the outside of the cue ball on extreme spin shots (since the edge of the tip has to hit the contact point on the CB, not the middle), but these shots don't come up much in an actual game anyway and are still makeable with a thicker shaft.
Am I correct in thinking that there's no appreciable difference, just a matter of personal preference and feel, and that the difference is mostly perception by beginning or intermediate players, or am I missing something?
Scott
I just don't agree with this, especially based on my own experience. I shoot with a Schon and up until a few years ago used the standard Schon shaft. Stiff, lots of deflection. I tried the Z2 and had to recalibrate some things but I liked it overall and been using it for about 2 years. I also have a 314-2, and I've switched between them and really see no difference in accuracy or spin production between the standard shaft, Z2, or 314-2. Or probably any other shaft for that matter. I can pop off my Z2 and use my 314-2 and hit any spin shot the same with either shaft. I do realize that because of the slight added diameter you feel like you are aiming slightly more toward the outside of the cue ball on extreme spin shots (since the edge of the tip has to hit the contact point on the CB, not the middle), but these shots don't come up much in an actual game anyway and are still makeable with a thicker shaft.
Am I correct in thinking that there's no appreciable difference, just a matter of personal preference and feel, and that the difference is mostly perception by beginning or intermediate players, or am I missing something?
Scott
Smaller tip more possibilities. I find that people that stay down and aim for a while do ok with this shaft.
There is lots of people that play by feel and fast and having to pick a spot on the CB pin point is just an added hustle.
I know some that stopped using this shaft because they felt it didn’t let them move the ball around the table as easily as 314 does and yet slightest variance created unwanted English.
Those were advanced players. If you look at the number of pros that use 314 vs z it isn’t close. Z is just harder to play with in the long run.
There is lots of people that play by feel and fast and having to pick a spot on the CB pin point is just an added hustle.
I know some that stopped using this shaft because they felt it didn’t let them move the ball around the table as easily as 314 does and yet slightest variance created unwanted English.
Those were advanced players. If you look at the number of pros that use 314 vs z it isn’t close. Z is just harder to play with in the long run.
id like to thanks everyone for the responses......
well i picked up a z2 fri night second hand, i have about 7 hours table time in so far with it and i really cant tell the difference between it and my regular schon shafts.
the only place i can see a bit of difference is on banks, it is now harder to bank a ball(im sure ill adjust), im not missing table length shots with inside english like i thought i would till i got used to the cue ball path.
Iam the type that can feel change very easily so this shaft really surprised me on how very little to none has changed on the cue ball action/path.
I should add that it was pretty wet(humid here) while playing over the weekend so that could and im assuming is what caused me to be missing banks more often then usual and not the shafts lower deflection.
I will be giving the shaft some more play time but so far im kinda bummed there isnt more of a difference that i can notice......oh well looks like another hyped product in the billiard world that i wasted money on....she may be up for sale soon.
well i picked up a z2 fri night second hand, i have about 7 hours table time in so far with it and i really cant tell the difference between it and my regular schon shafts.
the only place i can see a bit of difference is on banks, it is now harder to bank a ball(im sure ill adjust), im not missing table length shots with inside english like i thought i would till i got used to the cue ball path.
Iam the type that can feel change very easily so this shaft really surprised me on how very little to none has changed on the cue ball action/path.
I should add that it was pretty wet(humid here) while playing over the weekend so that could and im assuming is what caused me to be missing banks more often then usual and not the shafts lower deflection.
I will be giving the shaft some more play time but so far im kinda bummed there isnt more of a difference that i can notice......oh well looks like another hyped product in the billiard world that i wasted money on....she may be up for sale soon.
Hmmm... I play with a Z and I have no clue how you can possibly not feel a major difference. Whenever i play with a high deflection cue i have to aim completely different, to have any chance of potting a ball. No offense but the Z playing similar to a Schon sounds a bit fishy to me.
Firstly, and least importantly, there should be a distinction between the words deflection and squirt. Most use them as synonyms, but it is worth being more specific.
Technically, deflection is the displacement of tip due to the orthogonal force of the cue ball upon the tip, causing the shaft to flex away from the line of stroke.
Squirt is the angular deviation of the cue ball from the aim line.
Deflection causes squirt. The MORE deflection, the LESS squirt.
The MORE the shaft flexes, or deflects, out of the way, the LESS rebounding potential energy is translated back to the cue ball perpendicularly to the stoke.
In other words, poking a bowling ball with English with a wooden baseball bat is going to throw its path off of the aim line more than poking it with a swimming pool float noodle.
Also, look at my avatar. The numerator and denominator are similar except for mass. The greater the mass of the cue stick (thickness) the less deflection, and the greater the squirt angle.
Another nice thing about the Z2 is how its made. The wood is actually a laminate of 10 pie-shaped pieces of wood with the same gain pattern. Therefore the deflection is consistent no matter how the cue is rotated in your hand, compared to single-piece shafts.
I am a beginner, at least I consider 3 years of pool playing the beginner level. I have a Z2 shaft on a McDermott butt. I have been playing for the three years with the factory shaft, and recently switched to the Z2. From the perspective of a beginner that hasn't been biased yet, the Z2 requires less pivot (front/back hand English) then other shafts, and makes it much easier to learn how to apply spin from across the table.
Now I pretty much feel like I can use spin for every shot if I want to. I'm not afraid of it. I even consistently apply top left and right on cue balls against the rail (compensating for swerve) and get out of sticky situations with more confidence than my other shaft, or other shafts.
So I guess the conclusion is that less front/back hand english is required. If you already have spent your life learning this compensation second nature, then stick with what you have. But this shaft is excellent for newbies.
Technically, deflection is the displacement of tip due to the orthogonal force of the cue ball upon the tip, causing the shaft to flex away from the line of stroke.
Squirt is the angular deviation of the cue ball from the aim line.
Deflection causes squirt. The MORE deflection, the LESS squirt.
The MORE the shaft flexes, or deflects, out of the way, the LESS rebounding potential energy is translated back to the cue ball perpendicularly to the stoke.
In other words, poking a bowling ball with English with a wooden baseball bat is going to throw its path off of the aim line more than poking it with a swimming pool float noodle.
Also, look at my avatar. The numerator and denominator are similar except for mass. The greater the mass of the cue stick (thickness) the less deflection, and the greater the squirt angle.
Another nice thing about the Z2 is how its made. The wood is actually a laminate of 10 pie-shaped pieces of wood with the same gain pattern. Therefore the deflection is consistent no matter how the cue is rotated in your hand, compared to single-piece shafts.
I am a beginner, at least I consider 3 years of pool playing the beginner level. I have a Z2 shaft on a McDermott butt. I have been playing for the three years with the factory shaft, and recently switched to the Z2. From the perspective of a beginner that hasn't been biased yet, the Z2 requires less pivot (front/back hand English) then other shafts, and makes it much easier to learn how to apply spin from across the table.
Now I pretty much feel like I can use spin for every shot if I want to. I'm not afraid of it. I even consistently apply top left and right on cue balls against the rail (compensating for swerve) and get out of sticky situations with more confidence than my other shaft, or other shafts.
So I guess the conclusion is that less front/back hand english is required. If you already have spent your life learning this compensation second nature, then stick with what you have. But this shaft is excellent for newbies.
I'm not sure either how you can't tell the difference. I used to shoot with the standard Schon shaft, quite a stiff hit and a lot of deflection, the Z2 is 1/2 that if not less for a full table length firm english shot. And there are many shots that I can shoot with minimal if any compensation for the various factors, maybe because in certain cases they cancel each other out but definitely different than the stock Schon shaft.
Not necessarily better though, just different, so if you don't like it then by all means sell the slightly used Z shaft to recoup most of your money and stick with the standard Schon shaft.
Scott
Not necessarily better though, just different, so if you don't like it then by all means sell the slightly used Z shaft to recoup most of your money and stick with the standard Schon shaft.
Scott
I played with Z for 2 years than I had a lots of other shafts. I don't think there is a comparation between Z and other shafts, especially with normal high- deflection ones. You can do things with the cue ball that you can not believe and not possible with other shafts. But also you can miss easy shots and as already stated can be very unforgiven. If you like, Z is like a wild horse. Can run like hell but it can also smack you to the ground. I think I'll go back using one.
they do play very differently, but i usually didn't have as much difficulty as you would think. ended up deciding to finally stick with OB classic for good and I gave my z2 to my father.
this should be nice, you will be careful for every shot. sometimes we miss in easy shot because we take it too easy.
See DaveK - see, I was not kidding. Having tried one myself, I couldn't stand it. Miscue is the name of that game. I shot with a 11.5 cm shaft for years and I could control it, but not the Z2 shaft. So go ahead and get one if you want to waste some money.