Preflag Master Chalk - Cheap
- Thread starter ToolMaker
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It is a magical mixture of rare elements that cannot any longer be obtained. It is said that it heals wounds, makes the blind see, and is responsible for more balls making it into pockets than any other factor in the universe. Rumor has it that it was made by beautiful virgins in a secret location, but I don't believe that part.
The main ingredient, unobtainium, is highly sought after by NASA scientists since it is impervious to cosmic rays.
Lastly it is well known that the main ingredient is also a powerful aphrodisiac and has been known to induce wild fits of passion in women. Please use with caution.
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In the mid to late '90's, the company (Tweeten) that makes Master chalk changed the formula. The old formula is better. It adheres to the tip better, less miscues, more spin, stays on the tip longer, less cast off, cleaner tables, cleaner balls, cleaner shafts, cleaner hands. This is my opinion and this opinion is shared by many folks on this forum.
In all fairness, there are also people who say they can't tell the difference. Also it should be noted that the company states that there was never a formula change. Therefore the topic is somewhat controversial. But, as stated, many people are very confident that the older chalk is different.
In 2001 Tweeten changed the label of their Master chalk. One side previously read "Premium Quality". They replaced that with an American flag as a patriotic gesture after 9/11.
There is no correlation as to why the flag was added to the label and the formula change. The timing of the formula change and the label change was close enough that people started to associate the two events and now it is called "pre-flag" (even though the difference in timing could be like five years or so). You can get the newer formula without the flag if you're not careful, which might have something to do with why some people say they can't tell the difference.
Here's one good thread about it. You can also do a search for "flag Master chalk" to find many other threads.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=126352
The pictures in the Craigslist add are not the greatest, so I am not 100% sure, but I would say the batch for sale is genuine old pre-flag based on the "start" holes on the cubes. Make sure to ask if all the cubes are from the same batch.
Fatz
Isn't true the old Master pre-flag chalk contained lead, mercury and arsenic? In 1996 cases of childhood lead poisoning in Arizona and North Carolina were linked to pool cue chalk that the children had been putting in their mouths. Who is testing the new brands of chalk?
I don't know. But it sounds to me like you already knew the answer to the question you asked earlier.
I don't know. Volunteers? I think that you'll be fine as long as you are not a developing child and as long as you don't plan on eating the chalk. You're not a developing child are you?
All good points. Now that you mention it, I think it is highly unlikely that this chalk contains lead, mercury or arsenic.
Fatz
This has been reported and clarified here every time this silly topic comes up.
Flag / Pre- Flag have no connection with lead.
Only a couple of pigments had lead. Blue Masters was NOT one of the pigments with lead. From the pigment industry, white, yellow and red were the ones that had lead.
Those pigments that had lead were changed to non-lead pigments when the pigment industry for inks, paints and dyes started getting rid of their use. That was decades ago. These pigments were blankety banned for general publc use by the 90's.
From my notes from a phone call to Tweeten around 2005:
Tweeten switched over their pigments that had lead decades ago Only a couple had lead including yellow and red. The pigmnent changeover was in the 70's or early 80's But importantly, it was way before the 9/11 Flag change.
Blue and green never had lead to begin with. The formula for the Masters chalks have not changed.
Freddie <~~~ but let's not let the facts and Tweeten's president get in the way of a bad urban legend
Fred.. when you say yellow.. do you mean the tan? or was there an actual yellow?
i got myself a nice little personal stockpile of the pre flag tan
chris
i got myself a nice little personal stockpile of the pre flag tan
chris
I believe this.
But I don't believe that they didn't change other ingredients in their chalk. I think that for whatever reasons - quality reasons, or economic reasons - they have changed the formula along the way. They probably changed things like the binder or the type/quality/proportions of the silica used. They probably didn't consider it important to inform the public of something like that.
In fact, I'm beginning to think that they changed the formula multiple times over the years. I have had "non-flag" labeled Master that was not as hard as the older Master, but not as cakey as the newer Master.
That's my theory. But I don't have any insider info to prove it, just my own keen sense of observation. It is just my opinion that my sense of observation is keen, by the way.
Fatz
The yellow pigment that had lead. There are several yellow pigments.Fred.. when you say yellow.. do you mean the tan? or was there an actual yellow?
i got myself a nice little personal stockpile of the pre flag tan
chris
That would mean that every chalk color that might have had that particular yellow pigment. My notes unfortunately just say yellow, so it's a good question.
My google search says Naples Yellow was a lead pigment used in the color industries. It's not bright.
Freddie <~~~ also like post flag tan
Is it possible that people are comparing today's Masters to counterfeit Masters (which is one reason that led to a Flag on the wrapper to begin with). I have Masters Post Flag that I plucked out of the same box that today don't feel the same. It's non-homogeneous after all. And I"m not a bigot or homophobic.
That being said, I don't have proof one way or another. I know when I visited the shop, the equipment was old, but not a hundred years old. So, maybe the process is just more efficient today (which might make a better or worse product, I suppose). What I can say with some level of confidence (like greater than zero) is that there really at this point is no reason to not be truthful about this. I mean, we're talking chalk not WoMD.
Freddie <~~~ equipment is my middle three names
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I believe that the whole Pre-Flag thing is blown out of proportion. I personally have almost 2 gross of Pre Flag blue chalk that I've had for almost 20 years. I keep a few pieces in my bag for when I go to a pool room and get a set of balls, and the 1 or 2 pieces of chalk in the tray are drilled about halfway through or more from previous players who do not know how to properly chalk a cue tip. When this happens, I simply take out 2 cubes of my own (Pre Flag) and use them. If the chalk in the tray is in good shape, then I use it instead of my own. I honestly have never noticed a difference in how they play.
The wrapper was changed due to events of 9/11 I'm sure.
I think people have a problem because some sell the Pre-flag at premium prices, but I don't really think this is any different than a Balabushka, an antique pool table, an antique car, or anything else that has gained in value, or cost, over time. It's nostalgia if nothing else, and some people don't mind paying for that. It's not worth argument surely,,,,obviously some don't think it warrants a premium price, but since some will pay it then it obviously is. I'm authorized to sell and re-tip Kamui Products,,,,,,,there is another argument that comes up all the time,,,,,but the fact is the ones who like the product will pay for it and the others can simply play their own favorites.
Arguments and dis-agreements on this type thing are never resolved, yet always unnecessary.
The wrapper was changed due to events of 9/11 I'm sure.
I think people have a problem because some sell the Pre-flag at premium prices, but I don't really think this is any different than a Balabushka, an antique pool table, an antique car, or anything else that has gained in value, or cost, over time. It's nostalgia if nothing else, and some people don't mind paying for that. It's not worth argument surely,,,,obviously some don't think it warrants a premium price, but since some will pay it then it obviously is. I'm authorized to sell and re-tip Kamui Products,,,,,,,there is another argument that comes up all the time,,,,,but the fact is the ones who like the product will pay for it and the others can simply play their own favorites.
Arguments and dis-agreements on this type thing are never resolved, yet always unnecessary.
I was the lucky one who got this deal
I've sold dozens of pre flag. I use it, i sell it i trade it. At S20 for 75 pieces it was a deal. My brother works in Menlo Park he picked it up and its on the way. I never over sell the chalk but i do believe there is a difference.
I've sold dozens of pre flag. I use it, i sell it i trade it. At S20 for 75 pieces it was a deal. My brother works in Menlo Park he picked it up and its on the way. I never over sell the chalk but i do believe there is a difference.