Primary or alternate?

[ldl01031]

ok, somewhat inane question coming...

Say you're practicing 9-ball. You have the 8 and 9 left, and you see two ways to shoot the 8, so you put down donuts for each ball.

Now, how would you proceed? (note I'm thinking of deliberate practice where you're tracking results)

For example:
- shoot your first instinct 5 (or x) times, then switch 5 (or x) times to your alternate?
- start with your alternate and swap back and forth 5 (or x) times?
- etc.

Thoughts?

 

[middleofnowhere]

ok, somewhat inane question coming...

Say you're practicing 9-ball. You have the 8 and 9 left, and you see two ways to shoot the 8, so you put down donuts for each ball.

Now, how would you proceed? (note I'm thinking of deliberate practice where you're tracking results)

For example:
- shoot your first instinct 5 (or x) times, then switch 5 (or x) times to your alternate?
- start with your alternate and swap back and forth 5 (or x) times?
- etc.

Thoughts?

I understand what you are saying. I think in a real game possably under some pressure, how you play it will be how you feel at the time. I would not shoot based on a supposed probabilty.

 

[Poolplaya9]

I think either will probably work well enough for your purposes of determining the better percentage play for you if you shoot enough of them to see a significant success difference. That said, there is an argument to be made to alternate, and that is so that you don't have the exact same shot fresh in your muscle memory and mind as a reference point to adjust from because in a real game you are always hitting it "cold" without having the benefit of having just shot the exact same shot right before. There is some chance that with the fresher reference point to adjust from one shot is much easier to adjust for than the other, but what you really want to know is which one you will shoot better "cold" the way it comes up in a game and alternating might do a slightly better job of determining that.

 

[pt109]

ok, somewhat inane question coming...

Say you're practicing 9-ball. You have the 8 and 9 left, and you see two ways to shoot the 8, so you put down donuts for each ball.

Now, how would you proceed? (note I'm thinking of deliberate practice where you're tracking results)

For example:
- shoot your first instinct 5 (or x) times, then switch 5 (or x) times to your alternate?
- start with your alternate and swap back and forth 5 (or x) times?
- etc.

Thoughts?

First...do yourself a favor...stop using donuts....you got 6 pockets, 18 diamonds, a head spot, and sometimes a balk line for reference...increase your knowledge of billiard angles...you should be able to replace the balls.
It exercises your billiard brain....which is what you have to use in competition.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I think part of practice should be experimentation. If you come to a shot and you think that your primary approach is only successful at obtaining position 50% of the time, try the alternate approach and see what happens. I believe that sticking with what you are comfortable with is partly what leads to plateauing.

 

[hang-the-9]

ok, somewhat inane question coming...

Say you're practicing 9-ball. You have the 8 and 9 left, and you see two ways to shoot the 8, so you put down donuts for each ball.

Now, how would you proceed? (note I'm thinking of deliberate practice where you're tracking results)

For example:
- shoot your first instinct 5 (or x) times, then switch 5 (or x) times to your alternate?
- start with your alternate and swap back and forth 5 (or x) times?
- etc.

Thoughts?

Does not matter at all the order of how you try the two ways, you should practice both ways so you know them when it comes up and can execute both. I would probably alternate the shots since shooting the same shot multiple times in a row will make it a good practice for learning the shot but a bad practice comparing it since you will remember how to hit it better each time. So try 1 may be bad but try 3-4-5-6-7, etc.. would be better

 

[JazzyJeff87]

If there is a shot that is new or something I’m having trouble with I will shoot it many times in a row, not feeling guilty at all that I’m giving myself the advantage of instant feedback and unlimited re-tries. I consider this my time to learn that shot and it’s intricacies in depth.

Once I can consistently make it then I will start alternating (cutting it to the left now instead of right etc) and also alternate between other shots or other ways of shooting that one, this is like the “cementing” the shot into my arsenal time. Being able to make it cold, as part of a run or whatever.

 

[ldl01031]

I understand what you are saying. I think in a real game possably under some pressure, how you play it will be how you feel at the time. I would not shoot based on a supposed probabilty.

Not probability, rather: investigate what works for me, and also work on making it either way (or one of three ways, etc.). I've discovered some interesting things this way. And it helps in giving meaning to practice instead of just mindlessly trying to run balls.

 

[ldl01031]

I think either will probably work well enough for your purposes of determining the better percentage play for you if you shoot enough of them to see a significant success difference. That said, there is an argument to be made to alternate, and that is so that you don't have the exact same shot fresh in your muscle memory and mind as a reference point to adjust from because in a real game you are always hitting it "cold" without having the benefit of having just shot the exact same shot right before. There is some chance that with the fresher reference point to adjust from one shot is much easier to adjust for than the other, but what you really want to know is which one you will shoot better "cold" the way it comes up in a game and alternating might do a slightly better job of determining that.

Thanks. That was my conclusion as well - alternate.

 

[ldl01031]

First...do yourself a favor...stop using donuts....you got 6 pockets, 18 diamonds, a head spot, and sometimes a balk line for reference...increase your knowledge of billiard angles...you should be able to replace the balls.
It exercises your billiard brain....which is what you have to use in competition.

I don't agree Donuts are wonderful aids. I do have tiny pencil marks at every intersection for easily setting up drills, but the nuances of specific shots is what I was looking at here. I had a 'well-known' friend who wanted to mark my table with chalk all the time <grrr> Donuts rule.

 

[ldl01031]

I think part of practice should be experimentation. If you come to a shot and you think that your primary approach is only successful at obtaining position 50% of the time, try the alternate approach and see what happens. I believe that sticking with what you are comfortable with is partly what leads to plateauing.

Well said. Completely agree!

 

[ldl01031]

Does not matter at all the order of how you try the two ways, you should practice both ways so you know them when it comes up and can execute both. I would probably alternate the shots since shooting the same shot multiple times in a row will make it a good practice for learning the shot but a bad practice comparing it since you will remember how to hit it better each time. So try 1 may be bad but try 3-4-5-6-7, etc.. would be better

Thanks. I could make arguments for either, but yep, alternate. I guess the 'first' shot doesn't matter much if you're shooting it 5 or 10 times. But I was curious if someone had an 'aha' about which one to start with for some reason.

 

[ldl01031]

If there is a shot that is new or something I’m having trouble with I will shoot it many times in a row, not feeling guilty at all that I’m giving myself the advantage of instant feedback and unlimited re-tries. I consider this my time to learn that shot and it’s intricacies in depth.

Once I can consistently make it then I will start alternating (cutting it to the left now instead of right etc) and also alternate between other shots or other ways of shooting that one, this is like the “cementing” the shot into my arsenal time. Being able to make it cold, as part of a run or whatever.

Right on

 

[jimmyco]

I take a picture and send it to my lady. She sees things I never would.

 

[straightline]

Perfect your CB speed and direction. Once you have a working knowledge of the shot impact zone, pattern play will be simply pattern play.

 

[boogieman]

You know how it's always easy to see people making mistakes from the spectator chair? Take a 10 foot step back and walk around the table if you need. Just look at it for a bit if your route isn't clicking. It makes it more likely you will see how to play it before, rather than after you shoot. If you realize you should have played it differently after you shot, it's too late. This isn't for every shot, but you should give enough planning, especially when things start to go awry.

We can easily predict how pros will play something, or notice how a lower level player plays the wrong shot. Analyze your own game like this, as a spectator and see what you see.

 

[jasonlaus]

First...do yourself a favor...stop using donuts....you got 6 pockets, 18 diamonds, a head spot, and sometimes a balk line for reference...increase your knowledge of billiard angles...you should be able to replace the balls.
It exercises your billiard brain....which is what you have to use in competition.

My memory is completely shot, not to mention I've never been allowed to set up a shot and shoot it again in competition

 

[ldl01031]

You know how it's always easy to see people making mistakes from the spectator chair? Take a 10 foot step back and walk around the table if you need. Just look at it for a bit if your route isn't clicking. It makes it more likely you will see how to play it before, rather than after you shoot. If you realize you should have played it differently after you shot, it's too late. This isn't for every shot, but you should give enough planning, especially when things start to go awry.

We can easily predict how pros will play something, or notice how a lower level player plays the wrong shot. Analyze your own game like this, as a spectator and see what you see.

I agree. In the particular case I started with, it was more of a skill assessment than anything else. That is, 'high left and go around three rails, or low right and come back, or low center and accept a longer shot?' Obviously, the specific shot (placement of balls) was a big factor. I have an annoying habit of getting great shape, but missing the shot <groan>. So, I wanted to see how reproducible each approach was (for me, given my present skill level), plus get some practice with the approaches where I was weaker.

My memory is completely shot, not to mention I've never been allowed to set up a shot and shoot it again in competition

I've noticed that as well. Like they expect me to just 'sit down' after I've missed or something... Of course, that's the beauty of deliberate practice - I don't have to sit down and stew - I can ... practice!

 

[straightline]

You know how it's always easy to see people making mistakes from the spectator chair? Take a 10 foot step back and walk around the table if you need. Just look at it for a bit if your route isn't clicking. It makes it more likely you will see how to play it before, rather than after you shoot. If you realize you should have played it differently after you shot, it's too late. This isn't for every shot, but you should give enough planning, especially when things start to go awry.

We can easily predict how pros will play something, or notice how a lower level player plays the wrong shot. Analyze your own game like this, as a spectator and see what you see.

For most I think there's this pressure cloud that's everpresent in their think stream so a common fix is just to play "ahead" of reason. Jeanette Lee comes to mind. She stated many decades ago she would practice single shots repeatedly for hours until making them became habitual. Perfect solution until they run into the best - or even good pedantoids. These players draw energy from the risk and are perfectly comfortable embracing it. There is usually no freewheeling through this type of player.