PRO ONE for Dummies, using *GASP* a diagram.

[Colin Colenso]

This is for the head scratchers, trying to get some concept of what is going on with all this CTE and PRO ONE stuff. No doubt some in the faith will poo poo such a simple explanation as it doesn't involve any magical geometry.

The shot below is for a fullish left cut, where upon Edge to A, or Edge to 3/4 OB left side is used in conjunction with the CTE line to establish the mysterious visual... which by magical coincidence happens to be pretty close to where most players align on cut shots, which is a little too full, in the proximity of the contact point.

The sweep, rotation, pivot follows, which established a thinner cut line... hmmm, just like TOI.

A bit of practice and you'll be pre-aligning like a CTE master in no time. :thumbup:

This is just my opinion...assuming we're still free to have one around here. I share in the interest of both learning and helping others to make sense of some of the 'hard to understand & believe' claims made by CTE'ers.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Colin, I enjoy most of your postings, but I have to ask.

Have you seen the first DVD?

 

[mohrt]

This is for the head scratchers, trying to get some concept of what is going on with all this CTE and PRO ONE stuff. No doubt some in the faith will poo poo such a simple explanation as it doesn't involve any magical geometry.

The shot below is for a fullish left cut, where upon Edge to C, or Edge to 3/4 OB right side is used in conjunction with the CTE line to establish the mysterious visual... which by magical coincidence happens to be pretty close to where most players align on cut shots, which is a little too full, in the proximity of the contact point.

The sweep, rotation, pivot follows, which established a thinner cut line... hmmm, just like TOI.

A bit of practice and you'll be pre-aligning like a CTE master in no time. :thumbup:

This is just my opinion...assuming we're still free to have one around here. I share in the interest of both learning and helping others to make sense of some of the 'hard to understand & believe' claims made by CTE'ers.

If you are referring to Stan Shuffett's CTE PRO ONE, nowhere in his system has the shot you diagrammed (CB edge to C and CTEL on same OB side.)
[edit] looks like the diagram changed to a valid visual

I encourage positive enthusiasm and helping others as well. There is nothing magical, it has been discussed quite thoroughly around here for some time.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin, I enjoy most of your postings, but I have to ask.

Have you seen the first DVD?

No, but I've watched all of Stan's youtube videos and have been following all things CTE related since it's evolution. If I'm clearly wrong or missing anything I'd be happy to be informed.

I appreciate the work Stan has done to explain the system, but from all I've seen, I suspect I'd regret my investment in the DVD/s.

 

[Colin Colenso]

If you are referring specifically to Stan Shuffett's CTE PRO ONE, nowhere in that system is there a shot like the one you diagrammed (CB edge to C and CTEL on the same OB side).

I encourage positive enthusiasm and helping others as well. There is nothing magical, it has been discussed quite thoroughly around here for some time.

I was so focused on fiddling with paintbrush that I used C instead of A. I noticed it immediately after posting and corrected it. :speechless:

I don't make that mistake on the table. FWIW, I have practiced the system for many hours over the years.

 

[Colin Colenso]

If you are referring to Stan Shuffett's CTE PRO ONE, nowhere in his system has the shot you diagrammed (CB edge to C and CTEL on same OB side.)
[edit] looks like the diagram changed to a valid visual

I encourage positive enthusiasm and helping others as well. There is nothing magical, it has been discussed quite thoroughly around here for some time.

You were right... don't worry, you're not going mad.... I changed it.

Regarding the magical aspects, I'm referring to the concepts below:
1. System takes us to center of the pocket.
2. The single perception.
3. That the 2 square geometry and spheres lead to a simplified geometry that allow this system to direct us to all pockets.
4. That many pros are doing this subconsciously.

I think it's a good system for establishing a repeatable pre-alignment. An aspect which most players have ignored.

 

[mohrt]

I was so focused on fiddling with paintbrush that I used C instead of A. I noticed it immediately after posting and corrected it. :speechless:

I don't make that mistake on the table. FWIW, I have practiced the system for many hours over the years.

Your second diagram isn't bad. The only thing I'd add is that the sweep/pivot is always exactly 1/2 tip (visually or manually) from the shot line. This is the important piece that connects the system with the table.

It is odd that you claim to have studied and practiced the system for years, yet carry the attitude that an investment in the DVDs would be regretted.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I do have a question for Pro One users.

When you get the visual, are you imagining a line through the CB center or 1/2 tip left of CB center or do you not really think much about where the visual line intersects with the CB?

 

[mohrt]

I do have a question for Pro One users.

When you get the visual, are you imagining a line through the CB center or 1/2 tip left of CB center or do you not really think much about where the visual line intersects with the CB?

I use the line through CCB (pre pivot) to determine the pivot. ie. does it need thickened or thinned? Then the sweep is just a repetitive motion, which basically follows where they eyes lead to (CCB from left or right.)

 

[Colin Colenso]

Your second diagram isn't bad. The only thing I'd add is that the sweep/pivot is always exactly 1/2 tip (visually or manually) from the shot line. This is the important piece that connects the system with the table.

It is odd that you claim to have studied and practiced the system for years, yet carry the attitude that an investment in the DVDs would be regretted.

Thanks, you answered my question before I asked it. I did make the green visual line a little left of center.

I still may buy it, if only to be better equipped to analyze the system and claims. There's not much I don't know about it... I know more than a lot guys who reported miraculous improvements back in the early days based purely on CTE with 1/2 tip pivot. I figured then and still do, that they were making compensations, albeit intuitively. And I now think that the visuals and the air pivot has made those compensations easier.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I do have a question for Pro One users.

When you get the visual, are you imagining a line through the CB center or 1/2 tip left of CB center or do you not really think much about where the visual line intersects with the CB?

No line.

Just find the center of the fixed CB.

For a left sweep, your eyes move to the left as you're going down and you'll rotate slightly into center CB.

On the right sweep, you simply bend down into center CB. You'll notice that as you bend down, your head automatically moves to the right.

If you are serious about understanding the system (which I think you are), then I highly suggest watching this support video multiple times, and doing exactly what Stan does. I don't have a pool table, but I did put some tape on a desk/table of similar height to help guide me through the movements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwI_62Npos

 

[Colin Colenso]

I use the line through CCB (pre pivot) to determine the pivot. ie. does it need thickened or thinned? Then the sweep is just a repetitive motion, which basically follows where they eyes lead to (CCB from left or right.)

Thanks. I've never seen this aspect referred to in the youtube vids... or I forgot.

 

[Colin Colenso]

No line.

Just find the center of the fixed CB.

For a left sweep, your eyes move to the left as you're going down and you'll rotate slightly into center CB.

On the right sweep, you simply bend down into center CB. You'll notice that as you bend down, your head automatically moves to the right.

If you are serious about understanding the system (which I think you are), then I highly suggest watching this support video multiple times, and doing exactly what Stan does. I don't have a pool table, but I did put some tape on a desk/table of similar height to help guide me through the movements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwI_62Npos

Thanks, I've watched that a few times. I think I've watched all his vids several times. I think I understand the sweeps pretty well and their derivation from the bridge pivot of yesteryear.

I do have a table at home and have practiced the sweeps. I must say that I don't like the idea that the left sweep puts our hand close to our body and the right sweep puts the hand further away. I don't think that is necessary... as evidenced by snooker players who are very attentive to having the same hand position relative to the body.

 

[nobcitypool]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but it is obvious from your diagram you only have a rudimentary understanding, at best, of CTE/Pro One. But who cares? If you have a system that works for you, that's absolutely great. Throwing some sloppy diagram up done in MS Paint and declaring you understand CTE/Pro One though is a bit silly though mate.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Thanks, I've watched that a few times. I think I've watched all his vids several times. I think I understand the sweeps pretty well and their derivation from the bridge pivot of yesteryear.

I do have a table at home and have practiced the sweeps. I must say that I don't like the idea that the left sweep puts our hand close to our body and the right sweep puts the hand further away. I don't think that is necessary... as evidenced by snooker players who are very attentive to having the same hand position relative to the body.

Honestly, I don't even notice the difference with hand distance.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but it is obvious from your diagram you only have a rudimentary understanding, at best, of CTE/Pro One. But who cares? If you have a system that works for you, that's absolutely great. Throwing some sloppy diagram up done in MS Paint and declaring you understand CTE/Pro One though is a bit silly though mate.

My point is that the diagram is a way to simplify the entire process.

Basically, people 'GUESS' a thick pot line, then they adjust it a touch thinner. They use the lines and edges as a visual guide, which takes them to a consistent thick line. Then by practice and intuition (subconsious adjustments), they move onto the correct potting line.

It's CTE without all the bells, whistles, mirrors, mystery and magic.

If you want my opinion, and you probably don't, the magic of this method comes from players looking at the balls harder than they ever have and trusting their pre-alignment, shooting straight instead of swooping, which after some practice will teach them how to find the pot angle.

 

[nobcitypool]

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm not trying to insult you but you are making statements and assumptions that simply are incorrect. You have obviously given this a fair amount of thought though which is good. You're inquisitive. I'm guessing it would cost you $75 for Stan's second DVD when you include shipping to Australia. Maybe a bit less. If you really are passionate about pool, want to get better and are willing to work at it, make that purchase. It will absolutely be the best money you've invested in the game.

 

[Colin Colenso]

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm not trying to insult you but you are making statements and assumptions that simply are incorrect. You have obviously given this a fair amount of thought though which is good. You're inquisitive. I'm guessing it would cost you $75 for Stan's second DVD when you include shipping to Australia. Maybe a bit less. If you really are passionate about pool, want to get better and are willing to work at it, make that purchase. It will absolutely be the best money you've invested in the game.

That's ok, no offense taken. I don't expect to convert everyone. I think it's a touch under $75 including shipping. The cost doesn't bother me, it's the impossibility of crucial claims already proposed that does.

Without the system making any reference to the pocket position, relative to the OB, other than + or - several degrees, to establish 15, 30 or 45 to edge lines, it is blatantly obvious to anyone who understands geometry that the balls themselves can't find the visual line that takes you to a pocket.

Imagine a CB and OB on a table, tell the shooter the shot is between 5 and 15 degrees to the pocket. Now put up a curtain between ball and pocket so none of the rails can be seen past the curtain... yep, they do that, and so can I using any aiming method... here is the kicker which will prove that the system doesn't work as stated.

Remove the rails on the part of the table seen, then cut that part of the table into a random shape, so that the direction and position of the table cannot be established. Nothing has changed that should affect the visual as the visuals claim not to take any of the rails or table position into account. Now try to use CTE or PRO ONE to make the shot.... good luck.

Fact is that the curtain trick is a circus sideshow. An experienced player knows where the line to a pocket is by seeing the ball's position relative to rails. Take away those visual references and you're left with a guessing game.

 

[BeiberLvr]

That's ok, no offense taken. I don't expect to convert everyone. I think it's a touch under $75 including shipping. The cost doesn't bother me, it's the impossibility of crucial claims already proposed that does.

Without the system making any reference to the pocket position, relative to the OB, other than + or - several degrees, to establish 15, 30 or 45 to edge lines, it is blatantly obvious to anyone who understands geometry that the balls themselves can't find the visual line that takes you to a pocket.

Imagine a CB and OB on a table, tell the shooter the shot is between 5 and 15 degrees to the pocket. Now put up a curtain between ball and pocket so none of the rails can be seen past the curtain... yep, they do that, and so can I using any aiming method... here is the kicker which will prove that the system doesn't work as stated.

Remove the rails on the part of the table seen, then cut that part of the table into a random shape, so that the direction and position of the table cannot be established. Nothing has changed that should affect the visual as the visuals claim not to take any of the rails or table position into account. Now try to use CTE or PRO ONE to make the shot.... good luck.

Fact is that the curtain trick is a circus sideshow. An experienced player knows where the line to a pocket is by seeing the ball's position relative to rails. Take away those visual references and you're left with a guessing game.

The system only works on a regulation 2x1 table. So yes, if you were to alter the shape of the table, it would not work.

But that doesn't prove anything.

 

[rubell]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but it is obvious from your diagram you only have a rudimentary understanding, at best, of CTE/Pro One. But who cares? If you have a system that works for you, that's absolutely great. Throwing some sloppy diagram up done in MS Paint and declaring you understand CTE/Pro One though is a bit silly though mate.

Can you please specify what is wrong with the diagram? I personally like the diagram (I've seen only the last version). Can you please elaborate what is wrong in the diagram? How would you draw it better? Just curious.