Pro One: No more sweeps.

BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe Gerry or Stan can give this a try and let me know if it works as well for them as it does for me.


For cuts to the right

CTEL/C (thick cut/outside pivot):
Tip will line up directly with "B" on the OB

CTEL/C (thin cut/inside pivot):
Inside edge of shaft (right side for cuts to the right) will line up with "B" on the OB

CTEL/B (thick/outside)
Tip will line up with "A"

CTEL/B (thin/inside)
Inside edge of shaft lines up with "A"

ETA (thick/outside)
Inside edge of shaft lines up with "A"

ETA (thin/inside)
Inside edge of shaft lines up with edge of OB.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Maybe Gerry or Stan can give this a try and let me know if it works as well for them as it does for me.


For cuts to the right

CTEL/C (thick cut/outside pivot):
Tip will line up directly with "B" on the OB

CTEL/C (thin cut/inside pivot):
Inside edge of shaft (right side for cuts to the right) will line up with "B" on the OB

CTEL/B (thick/outside)
Tip will line up with "A"

CTEL/B (thin/inside)
Inside edge of shaft lines up with "A"

ETA (thick/outside)
Inside edge of shaft lines up with "A"

ETA (thin/inside)
Inside edge of shaft lines up with edge of OB.
Click to expand...

You will run into one inconsistency after another.

Stan Shuffett
 
I wish that you would not muddy the water of Pro One by suggesting NO MORE SWEEPS...

I have worked extremely hard to progress to where I am with Pro One and I can assure you that what I teach is complete and does not need any modifications.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I wish that you would not muddy the water of Pro One by suggesting NO MORE SWEEPS...

I have worked extremely hard to progress to where I am with Pro One and I can assure you that what I teach is complete and does not need any modifications.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Stan,

The sweeps aren't literally going away. What I am doing is simply offering a check system for sweeps for those that may be having trouble with them.

If one pays attention to how their tip or edge of shaft is aligned to the OB as I have listed in my OP, then they can tell whether or not they have made the correct sweep to CCB.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Stan,

The sweeps aren't literally going away. What I am doing is simply offering a check system for sweeps for those that may be having trouble with them.

If one pays attention to how their tip or edge of shaft is aligned to the OB as I have listed in my OP, then they can tell whether or not they have made the correct sweep to CCB.
Click to expand...

As I indicated, what you listed will not hold up. I went through all that years ago.

I appreciate your interest in CTE PRO ONE but I can doubly assure you there are NO consistent cue checks.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
As I indicated, what you listed will not hold up. I went through all that years ago.

I appreciate your interest in CTE PRO ONE but I can doubly assure you there are NO consistent cue checks.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Maybe it's because I'm using an 11.75mm tip? I don't know.

What I do know is that since doing this I have had nothing but consistent results.

All "arguments" aside, I'm looking forward to DVD2 :)
 
BeiberLvr said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Maybe it's because I'm using an 11.75mm tip? I don't know.

What I do know is that since doing this I have had nothing but consistent results.

All "arguments" aside, I'm looking forward to DVD2 :)
Click to expand...

That's fine. Thanks!

You title is a little negative toward sweeps as if they can be done away with.

In time you will see the breakdown of cue aiming. That's pure guess work.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
That's fine. Thanks!

You title is a little negative toward sweeps as if they can be done away with.

In time you will see the breakdown of cue aiming. That's pure guess work.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Just curious,what do you mean by this?
Even in pro1 your using guess work,a person can only do the best he can to get his visuals ,wont be the same every time,maybe close but not always perfect.
Not sure how everyone else is aiming but I sight rite down the cue like a rifle on most every shot.Using the cue is a great way of connecting the cb and ob in my opinion.

Anthony
 
Primo said:
I will give you credit for coming up with this because your the only one other than myself to look at it that way and experiment. I did this 2 years ago,.i tried to figure out where the shaft,edges,ccb,A,B,C,etc would line up on the "cb" and "ob" when on the shot line.If you shoot this way you are using feel to get on the correct shot line. It comes very close but its not exact and can not be exact. You're on the right path to understanding the system though but the time will come for you to move on from this, trust me :)
Click to expand...

Do you mind explaining a little more? Using your tip/shaft to aim at a spot/edge on the OB is about as objective as it gets.

Mind you I'm not just stepping into the shot, but finding the visuals first. That's obviously the most important part. If you don't get yourself aligned to the visuals, then you're going to miss the shot.
 
I feel like I should clarify a few things before things get out of hand.

1. Perhaps what I am doing isn't really Pro One as defined by Stan. I am, however, using the visuals as taught on the DVD on every single one of my shots.

2. This isn't just something I figured out and tried for a couple hours. I've spent a few weeks working on this and practicing a wide variety of different shots. All with very positive and consistent results.

3. I understand that folks like Stan and Primo (and maybe others) have tried this, but I urge them both to try it using the directions in my OP. I'm more than willing to change my tune if someone can diagram a shot that can't be made using the tip/shaft alignments I have provided.

4. Finally, this is in no way a knock at Pro One or Stan.
 
Primo said:
Firstly you use the pro1 alignments,etc to get on the shot line, correct? Once you were on down on the shot line you tried to figure out what matches up with what, You did this going through all the pro1 alignments correct?
Click to expand...

I set up a bunch of different reference shots from the DVD, as well as random shots using different visuals.

Then I would get down on the shot using a manual pivot. I observed that for the same shot, a left and right pivot would produce different tip/shaft alignments in relation to the OB.

As I mentioned in my previous post before this one, this might not really be Pro One. However, I assure it works, and works very well.
 
Primo said:
I know its not a knock on stan or the system and you're just experimenting with the system. Nobody has experimented with it more than me and I am willing to bet on it too lol.

I tried matching up ccb and edges of the cb and I fractionalised the cb and the shaft to points on the object ball. I came to the final conclusion that doing it this way uses feel to finish off the shot. I also figured out that it was a lot easier using the system correctly lol. I pick up the two lines like you sweep and I am on the shot line :)
Click to expand...

Here's what you have to understand. For a CTEL/A or C. An outside pivot/sweep will put the tip directly in line with B on the OB. B is also the exact center of the OB.

If you were to stand in a position where your visuals are NOT CTEL/A or C, then B (or the center) of the OB is going to be different, and you will miss the shot if you try lining your tip up with it.

That's why it's crucial to get your visuals correct before trying to line up your tip/shaft with the OB.
 
Primo said:
On your first example it would be correct for a "straight in shot" and the tip will be put directly in line with B. Will it be directly in line with B on a 5 degree shot?
Click to expand...

Yes. Since a shot with a 5 degree cut would require an outside pivot, then the tip would align with B.
 
I use Left edge,left quarter,center,right quarter and right edge. Now that like 5 lines stripes on the OB (left shot) I use the right quarter and right edge base on how the angle look. (right shot) I use the left edge and left quarter. I just step back and look at the object ball and judging on how the angle look....I've been doing this all my life and it work for me. I just use the shaft to do the work aiming at one of those 5 lines to choose from depend on what shot and angles it is. I just use the shaft center cue ball but same time I got the shaft lining up on the one of the 5 lines.I use right shaft to go right and left shaft to go left. I am alway center cue ball when shooting. only time I am not center cue ball is when i got a thin cut shots. instead of going into center cue ball. Im using the same method but different......this time I go over on the cue ball then once I dial it in....I pivot to center and go one hair or 2 over then shoot it. that way i aim and I make balls nothing and I had 2 people I help out and they were amaze how simple it is. again I am so sorry but I think pro one is kind of a guessing way.....it put in the right line but still little off. I think it more of right line into the shot then little adjustment on it the shot which I think it is too much.......just like mine.....step back look at angle and know what quarters or edges then go in and stroke then shoot it. Shane does same thing but his little more additional and I am working on that and also the TOI. way I do it and Shane and toi is very accurate to hit the balls on right spot. let the shaft do the work and tell you where it going to hit. that all i gotta says.
 
Primo said:
contact point on the object will be pretty much stay "B" but not the shot line. The shot line will have moved, the tip will be pointed at a different spot on the ob..
Click to expand...

Try this please.

Set up multiple shots where your visuals are CTEL/A or C and use an outside manual pivot.

Your tip will always point to "B".
 
Primo said:
have a look, It comes close but its not exact like I said above. I did all the same stuff you are doing and it helped me.
Click to expand...

Ok, now try this instead.

Set up those same shots, but instead of doing a manual pivot. Just go down with the tip pointed at "B"

The ball will go in the hole.

When I'm shooting shots this way, I'm still sweeping from left to right into CCB. But I'm letting my cue guide me and using the tip/shaft alignments to the OB as objective reference points.
 
This won't hold up for the same reason there are no "gaps" with CTE/Pro One. Using the aiming technique you described simply cannot produce consistent results for varying distances between the CB and OB. It is the "perception" of a fixed CB and the sweep that eliminates any gaps with the system. It is like a dynamic adjustment that doesn't exist with the technique you described and will leave you with gaps. If it is working for you as stated, that simply means you're unconsciously implementing enough feel modifications in your aiming to make it work. As Stan stated, I don't believe it will hold up for you over time. What you've described sounds more like another take on fractional aiming.

I'm not trying to insult you but I believe it also indicates a lack of real understanding on your part of how CTE/Pro One really works. Are you moving straight into the CB instead of a sweep? Are you getting your visuals offset or are standing directly behind the CB? FWIW, I'd recommend investing your time in learning the correct way to implement CTE/Pro One instead of attempting to reinvent the wheel with something that I feel certain isn't going to hold up for you over time.

With all this said, if you found something that is effective for you, have at it. SVB has developed his own system that's a hybrid based upon some other systems. Obviously, it works rather well for him. At the end of the day, the object of the game is to pocket balls, you don't get extra points for using a specific system to get that done.
 
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