Pro play.

oshua86

oshua86

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Question for those who are pros or ones that are able to see a particular pro consistently.

I was wondering how much does the level of play of a high level pro changes regularly. We all have been able to see how good someone like SVB or Dennis can play. But how about how bad or the worst they have played recently.
I was thinking about this because I find it interesting that some days/weeks or months I can play like a AA player and put pack after pack and then some days I play like a D or low C player struggling to make more than 3 balls in a row and praying I don't miss the easiest of shots.

Wondering if the world class players level of play goes as abrupt sometimes.
 
oshua86 said:
Question for those who are pros or ones that are able to see a particular pro consistently.

I was wondering how much does the level of play of a high level pro changes regularly. We all have been able to see how good someone like SVB or Dennis can play. But how about how bad or the worst they have played recently.
I was thinking about this because I find it interesting that some days/weeks or months I can play like a AA player and put pack after pack and then some days I play like a D or low C player struggling to make more than 3 balls in a row and praying I don't miss the easiest of shots.

Wondering if the world class players level of play goes as abrupt sometimes.
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Pros go up and down but what you're describing is too drastic to be within the normal range. Something is going on with you that you need to figure out.
 
Joshua...What this says to me is that you still don't completely trust your stroke yet. There is no particular timetable that will accomplish this goal. It's different for everyone. I've seen some "get it" in a week or two, and others that took several months. The key is to stick to practicing you Mother Drills. They will get you there...eventually! Good luck!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

oshua86 said:
Question for those who are pros or ones that are able to see a particular pro consistently.

I was wondering how much does the level of play of a high level pro changes regularly. We all have been able to see how good someone like SVB or Dennis can play. But how about how bad or the worst they have played recently.
I was thinking about this because I find it interesting that some days/weeks or months I can play like a AA player and put pack after pack and then some days I play like a D or low C player struggling to make more than 3 balls in a row and praying I don't miss the easiest of shots.

Wondering if the world class players level of play goes as abrupt sometimes.
Click to expand...
 
That still hasn't answered my original question, it might not be normal with the pros but it does happen, I've seen matches of archer on YouTube where him and his opponent were missing every couple of shot. I play tournaments every week and I'm an A player. It's easy to remember the times one play like an AA player but It happens many times where I play like a C player and I admit it. Every week I see players from A-AAA struggle with the same. A triple A player might not play as a C player because he has already accomplish a high level of pool but he might drop down to a B level for a day or a match or whatever.
 
oshua86 said:
That still hasn't answered my original question, it might not be normal with the pros but it does happen, I've seen matches of archer on YouTube where him and his opponent were missing every couple of shot. I play tournaments every week and I'm an A player. It's easy to remember the times one play like an AA player but It happens many times where I play like a C player and I admit it. Every week I see players from A-AAA struggle with the same. A triple A player might not play as a C player because he has already accomplish a high level of pool but he might drop down to a B level for a day or a match or whatever.
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Nope. You won't see an active pro shoot like a C or B player. If they do, there will be extenuating circumstances, such as illness or an unavoidable personal issue, like a death in the family.

Maybe you think you're better than you are. If you frequently drop down in speed, then your overall speed is lower than you think.
 
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I don't know why you have to turn this around into me thinking whether I'm better than I think or not, my speed, true speed or how I see myself has nothing to do with the question. I had a question and it wasn't about me, nor did I say a pro would play like a C or B player when they drop down in speed. My question was what is the worst you have seen a pro play. I'm really sick and tired of people turning things into personal matters around here, I always keep myself in the side lines but enough is enough, this is not the first time here someone has made a remark of some sorts without knowing all the facts. Matter of fact most of you don't even know me.
 
Oshua,

Don't let it get to you man. I watched your video's when you first posted them, you play very well! You don't need to worry about what others who don't know you think. I am certain your local players respect you and that should be good enough. I know it is good enough for me.

My best friend was with me this weekend and he said after dinner, "I hope you play as good tomorrow as you did today." My response was: "I hope I make good decisions and control my stroke." He appreciated that response, and hopefully you feel the same that I do and can be liberated from any derogatory statements.

As a member of the instructor circle, I won't say anything derogatory. I don't believe in bad karma, no matter how deserving we might think the other person truly. Promoting pool from a positive mentality is critical in my opinion. No matter how much we may dislike another pool player, what they say or do, that are still a POOL PLAYER and we share something in common that is not mainstream.

Steve
 
If your question is rearding the ups & downs of top players like pros. Just look to other sports as well.

Babe Ruth hit 714 home runs in an era where a home run was more of an oddlity. He also struck out more than anyone. He went into deep slumps of extended outs including many strike outs before emerging as the great home run hitter that he was.

Tiger Woods has revamped his swing multiple times & only one time was that really due to injury. He now has more PGA wins than Jack Nicklaus but he has also gone multiple times for nearly a year without a win.

I'm not exactly sure for what kind of answer you are looking, but I too 'assumed' that you were looking for something related to the pros that might help you & your up & down issue. Ms. Crimi & others were merely trying to help. This game is not just about the physical. There is more involved than just a good stroke. The truth can set you free even if it is in regards to a 'negative' thing.

If you are just asking about the pros you might want to ask this in the main forum. I would think many there follow the pros more closely.

Best Regards & Wishes,
 
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oshua86 said:
Question for those who are pros or ones that are able to see a particular pro consistently.

I was wondering how much does the level of play of a high level pro changes regularly. We all have been able to see how good someone like SVB or Dennis can play. But how about how bad or the worst they have played recently.
I was thinking about this because I find it interesting that some days/weeks or months I can play like a AA player and put pack after pack and then some days I play like a D or low C player struggling to make more than 3 balls in a row and praying I don't miss the easiest of shots.

Wondering if the world class players level of play goes as abrupt sometimes.
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It doesn't vary that much, but it can vary. The big difference, I believe, is in the mental attitudes. 99% of the time, if a pro is going to play, he sets his mind to play. Amateurs don't. We tend to think that we played great yesterday, so now we "have arrived" and will play great today. Then, when we don't start off to well, we sort of short circuit and everything goes haywire. A whole lot of it is mental attitude after a certain level of play.
 
Players have ups and downs, we're all human. You reference SVB, certainly one of the best players on the planet. SVB didn't really get a sniff in any of the three divisions at DCC yet within two weeks, turned around and demolished Mike D. in that "infamous" event. At that level, the difference between winning and losing isn't much. Perhaps a handful of missed shots in a match. And "missed" could be simply having missed position by a few inches. No different than golf really. Look at Tiger Woods. He's off by a inch or two on half a dozen putts, he finishes 20th. This past weekend, he had lots of bad drives but hit incredibly precise wedges and putts lights out, leads from start to finish.

For us mere mortals, it can be any number of things. Most of us have a family and/or a day job. A bad day at the office can certainly affect our play that evening. Perhaps our dominant eye aim alignment gets off slightly. Or we revert to some bad stroke habits. It could be any one or number of things that changes our success substantially. Let's face it, Pool isn't a game of feet or inches, it is often a game of 1/10's of inches or even less. Miss a few shots, have your opponent get on a roll, miss a couple of CB positions and suddenly our head goes haywire and everything is exacerbated.

For me at least, when I am having a problem with my game, I break out the sophisticated $150 (sarcasm) video recorder and record myself hitting shots for 5 or 10 minutes. Invariably, I've started doing something in my stroke that is rather obvious when I see it. So I go back to practicing a few of the Mother Drills taught to me by Scott to correct said fundamental problem. Play for a few days/weeks/months, repeat process. LOL

Hey, for the vast majority of us, pool is a recreational endeavor. I think we far too often have higher expectations of our performance than is reasonable to consistently deliver against given the amount of table time we're able to invest in. Even so, I would be willing to wager that when any of us experience a drop in our "normal" performance, 90% plus of the time, the root cause is a fundamental stroke flaw. Just MHO.
 
oshua86 said:
I don't know why you have to turn this around into me thinking whether I'm better than I think or not, my speed, true speed or how I see myself has nothing to do with the question. I had a question and it wasn't about me, nor did I say a pro would play like a C or B player when they drop down in speed. My question was what is the worst you have seen a pro play. I'm really sick and tired of people turning things into personal matters around here, I always keep myself in the side lines but enough is enough, this is not the first time here someone has made a remark of some sorts without knowing all the facts. Matter of fact most of you don't even know me.
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I think you're just looking for a particular answer that you want to hear or rather, read.

You're the one who used yourself as an example. It appeared that you were trying to compare yourself to the pros and that you were wondering if what you were experiencing was normal. That's how I took your question. Wasn't that what you were asking?

If so, I think the highs and low's you're discussing about yourself are not normal. That's based on your describing yourself as going from AA to C level. It was you who described yourself that way.
 
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Then you misunderstand me. I would never expect a pro (AAA or better) to play like a C player. My question was simple how bad have any of you see a pro play, that's it. The worst I've seen a pro play on a day has to he mike Davis and he still played like an A player. That is two ranks Down. Have any of you seen any worse than that? I feel like going two ranks down on a bad day is not such a stretch; on a pro wouldn't be as noticeable like I explained to someone because if they are playing at an A or AA level on a bad day that is still way better than most people. I only used myself as an example as to how bad I have come to play while being an A player. I have played as a high C or low B on a bad day, but on my good days I have played great running out sets multiple times on tournaments.

My question was not derived in comparison to my own game, it was more to see people's experience here on the subject. Back when I first started playing pool a couple of years ago I would only see matches on tv or finals of a event with just a few of the world class players, now that I travel a lot for tournaments and see tons of matches on stream tv I have been overwhelmed by how bad some good pros play on a slump or a bad day.

FranCrimi said:
I think you're just looking for a particular answer that you want to hear or rather, read.

You're the one who used yourself as an example. It appeared that you were trying to compare yourself to the pros and that you were wondering if what you were experiencing was normal. That's how I took your question. Wasn't that what you were asking?

If so, I think the highs and low's you're discussing about yourself are not normal. That's based on your describing yourself as going from AA to C level. It was you who described yourself that way.
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There are different reasons for players' games to fall off. While equipment overall is improving, it can be a big issue. I've seen many tournaments played on a particular brand of table where the rail pitch was wrong, and it affected everyone, but it showed the most in the top players whose strengths were their ability to be precise.

Also, playing under hot lights such as for TV, or streaming coverage changes the conditions of that particular table. Players will find themselves playing under different conditions than they played on the rest of the tournament.

Those are just two reasons. It's not easy in competitive situations. There are a lot of things behind the scenes that people don't understand when they turn on their computer and watch a streaming match.
 
I know several Pros and high-level short stop players, and yes they have bad days and yes it's possible to go down several levels, depending on how you rate that. But the difference between their best and worst, with perhaps a few outliers a year, is much more compressed than C, B, or even A players.

I believe that's just due to repetition and the pure number of hours put in to get to that level. They've typically shot the same shots thousands of times, learned how to shoot them correctly by shooting them incorrectly when it mattered, and most of the routine shots are just that - routine. But I've seen Archer, SVB, and many others play like crap for part of a match or even the entire match. And by crap I mean missing shots that even normal players wouldn't miss, making a pool shot selection, lack of speed control, etc. However, they often still keep things close or even gut out a win, and the next time you see them everything is back to normal. As Fran said something else could have been going on with them, pressure got to them for some reason, lack of confidence, change in equipment, some flaw creeping in, etc., or they were just temporarily off a bit because they are after all human like the rest of us...

Scott
 
Hey Oshua86, I saw in another thread that you have had conversations with several top pros regarding their mechanics. Why not ask them your question directly about playing way below their speed instead of speculating?
 
FranCrimi said:
Hey Oshua86, I saw in another thread that you have had conversations with several top pros regarding their mechanics. Why not ask them your question directly about playing way below their speed instead of speculating?
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I have asked them and I get an answer like this "some days I can't even make a ball". And no one is speculating, I don't know how many times I need to reinstate to you that I was only wanting to know the forums experience of what they have seen. I'm starting to seriously think that either I can't explain myself properly or you are the one speculating about what I'm trying to say, my intentions, my speed, etc. somehow you trying to find something wrong when I say something, even when I posted about cue tips. I don't remember you replying to that thread once I corrected about the predator tips and you jumped to conclusions once again.
 
oshua86 said:
I have asked them and I get an answer like this "some days I can't even make a ball". And no one is speculating, I don't know how many times I need to reinstate to you that I was only wanting to know the forums experience of what they have seen. I'm starting to seriously think that either I can't explain myself properly or you are the one speculating about what I'm trying to say, my intentions, my speed, etc. somehow you trying to find something wrong when I say something, even when I posted about cue tips. I don't remember you replying to that thread once I corrected about the predator tips and you jumped to conclusions once again.
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OK, thanks for the explanation. I have no idea what you are trying to say so all I can say is I hope that you get the answers you are looking for.
 
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FranCrimi said:
OK, thanks for the explanation. I have no idea what you are trying to say so all I can say is I hope that you get the answers you are looking for.
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And please don't take my words personal, I really have nothing against you or anyone else; I don't mean to come across as an ass and I might of have gotten a bit out of line earlier, there's so much animosity on this forum that I am really not trying to add more. I respect your opinion as a lover of pool and experienced pool player.
 
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