Pro Pocket Size TOO Small for 9 Ball

uk_9_ball_convert said:
I might be in the minority but I enjoy the safety aspect of the game and I also think the top players are running out so often that pocket sizes being too small clearly isn't an issue. As Lowell said would be boring if the ran out every time
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You are decidedly in the minority. Rotation isn’t meant to be a game of safeties, it’s an offense oriented game.

You like “the safety aspect”? As you’re from the UK, go play snooker then. Not good enough for snooker, which is why you converted to pool, then take up one pocket, a game designed for a lot of safety play.
 
uk_9_ball_convert said:
I might be in the minority but I enjoy the safety aspect of the game and I also think the top players are running out so often that pocket sizes being too small clearly isn't an issue. As Lowell said would be boring if the ran out every time
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Keep in mind they are playing on brand new slick cloth.... huge difference than worn in cloth with body oil/dirt embedded in the material.
 
Frosty said:
You are decidedly in the minority. Rotation isn’t meant to be a game of safeties, it’s an offense oriented game.

You like “the safety aspect”? As you’re from the UK, go play snooker then. Not good enough for snooker, which is why you converted to pool, then take up one pocket, a game designed for a lot of safety play.
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Snooker is very much an offense oriented game at the top level. The break building nowadays is through the roof. Safety play is important but it is just one small part of the game. In 9 ball, even on slick cloths with 5" pockets, deciding when to go defensive can be trickier than in snooker - it actually catches out a lot of players with a snooker background. In this regard 9 ball is more of a thinking game.

More generally, it's great to see this place has changed from a few years back when many posters wouldn't entertain the thought of discussing other cue sports. I think we are all American 9ft pool first but if you love billiards you love billiards.
 
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While the thread is focused on rotation games, there is no game that would benefit more from larger pockets than bank pool. Top players may have potting percentages under 50%, and B&R's are rare. It is a great game, but difficult to watch, even when the world's best are playing.
 
Not Dead Ted said:
While the thread is focused on rotation games, there is no game that would benefit more from larger pockets than bank pool. Top players may have potting percentages under 50%, and B&R's are rare. It is a great game, but difficult to watch, even when the world's best are playing.
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No offense but bank pool is not really on the radar screen except for Derby and i guess Vegas once a year. I agree on the hole size, 4.5 is fine but tighter ruins the flow of good bank pool.
 
Not Dead Ted said:
While the thread is focused on rotation games, there is no game that would benefit more from larger pockets than bank pool. Top players may have potting percentages under 50%, and B&R's are rare. It is a great game, but difficult to watch, even when the world's best are playing.
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This is a good application, I like it.

To all: In general people complain about equipment way more in pool than in other cue sports. Maybe we just learn to adapt rather than think we are so special? Like blaming European minds for example?
 
Frosty said:
You are decidedly in the minority. Rotation isn’t meant to be a game of safeties, it’s an offense oriented game.

You like “the safety aspect”? As you’re from the UK, go play snooker then. Not good enough for snooker, which is why you converted to pool, then take up one pocket, a game designed for a lot of safety play.
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Any cue sport there are times no matter how good you are, the best option is to play a safety.

9 ball they are still going for the finishes 90% of the time. It's not like you have a drawn out safety battle at the start of every frame.

I like 9 ball because it suits my attention span. And I really don't get the complaint both because even with smaller pockets the times playing safeties is a very small percentage of the match, but also because I can't understand calling yourself a billiards fan and not appreciating a well executed safety.

And you say it's an offensive game, but you can win by causing your opponent to make 3 fouls in a row. That's pretty unique to 9 ball,no other game rewards a good safety as heavily as that.
 
uk_9_ball_convert said:
Any cue sport there are times no matter how good you are, the best option is to play a safety.

9 ball they are still going for the finishes 90% of the time. It's not like you have a drawn out safety battle at the start of every frame.

I like 9 ball because it suits my attention span. And I really don't get the complaint both because even with smaller pockets the times playing safeties is a very small percentage of the match, but also because I can't understand calling yourself a billiards fan and not appreciating a well executed safety.

And you say it's an offensive game, but you can win by causing your opponent to make 3 fouls in a row. That's pretty unique to 9 ball,no other game rewards a good safety as heavily as that.
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No one said they don't like a good safety. The problem with tight pockets is it changes the game from one of offense to way too much ducking. As for the 3foul rule? That rarely happens unless the balls just end up funny making a 3f likely. BTW, One-pocket and 10b both have 3foul rules. I can't understand calling yourself a billiards fan if you don't know that.
 
uk_9_ball_convert said:
All golf courses that host pro tournaments have basically been massively lengthened and made much more challenging as pro golfers (possibly partially due to equipment) are so much better now. I remember courses talking about Tiger proofing the course when Tiger Woods was first on the scene and hitting ridiculously low scores.

My local club is 4.1" pockets and always packed. Though I suppose because most people will have played snooker or English pool first they will be thinking of them as the easy tables. Generally the American pool tables is a mix of drunks playing 8 ball and people that take it seriously playing 9 ball. Anyone that takes playing 8 ball seriously are on the English pool tables.
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Ok poor analogy.... then I think all golf courses should have trees lining the tee box 20 yards wide for 200 yards before they open up to the fairway.
 
Island Drive said:
Remove the 4'' and make em all 4 1/4'' for pro play.
Return aggressive rotation play back to it's roots.
Letting European minds make the pockets this small hurts the game/sport and the audience.
Seeing Gorst choose a safety, when he can cut a ball in is SAD.
The women pros NEVER use 4'' pockets.
For good reason.
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seeing pros runout all the time gets old too. Me personally I like seeing safety play, and I think the pockets should actually be smaller than they already are. I’d also like to see no jump cues.
 
Not Dead Ted said:
While the thread is focused on rotation games, there is no game that would benefit more from larger pockets than bank pool. Top players may have potting percentages under 50%, and B&R's are rare. It is a great game, but difficult to watch, even when the world's best are playing.
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Surely the whole point of Banks is that it is actually supposed to be difficult (which is why it is played in the first place) and that a percentage anywhere near 50% is pretty damn special? Why make it a B&R game? We have long sets in 8 and 9 (and 10 ball) for that.
 
garczar said:
No one said they don't like a good safety. The problem with tight pockets is it changes the game from one of offense to way too much ducking. As for the 3foul rule? That rarely happens unless the balls just end up funny making a 3f likely. BTW, One-pocket and 10b both have 3foul rules. I can't understand calling yourself a billiards fan if you don't know that.
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One pocket not really popular in the UK. Apologies for not knowing the rules to it, will hand back my billiards fan card as apparently I'm not worthy.
 
Swighey said:
Surely the whole point of Banks is that it is actually supposed to be difficult (which is why it is played in the first place) and that a percentage anywhere near 50% is pretty damn special? Why make it a B&R game? We have long sets in 8 and 9 (and 10 ball) for that.
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Have you ever played or watched top speed 9b bank pool? They run out from the break a lot. Up in Olathe i've watched Billy Thorpe run packages from the break. Sure there is some ducking but if they have any bank to look at they often run out. Seen Matlock run around 40 without a miss. That's what, 8 games worth? Lots of safety play.
 
Island Drive said:
No room owner will have Diamond bar tables with the pro cut 4 1/4 pockets for their regulars, who spend money on liquor and food.
Those patrons pay the rent and the last thing a room owner wants is player frustration, where no one can ever run more than two or 3 balls.
4'' pockets on a dirty or worn out table in humid conditions it's not pool.
That's why Bowling hasn't changed the lane size, or the PGA hasn't made the cup smaller.
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I play on Diamond Tables with 4.25” pockets on 9’ tables 90-95% of the time. When I switch to one of the tables with 4.5” CP, it does play easier. When I switch to a Diamond 7’ table with 4.5” pockets after playing on a 9’ Diamond table with 4.25” CP, the 7’ table plays so much easier than the 9’ with smaller pockets. I think playing with 4.25” pockets on a 7’ Diamond table is the way to go. I’d like to try a 7’ Diamond table with 4” pockets. It could be the best combination that makes 7’ tables as challenging as a 9’ table with 4.25” pockets. I’d have to try it to be sure but it sure seems like it would be tough & enjoyable.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I play on Diamond Tables with 4.25” pockets on 9’ tables 90-95% of the time. When I switch to one of the tables with 4.5” CP, it does play easier. When I switch to a Diamond 7’ table with 4.5” pockets after playing on a 9’ Diamond table with 4.25” CP, the 7’ table plays so much easier than the 9’ with smaller pockets. I think playing with 4.25” pockets on a 7’ Diamond table is the way to go. I’d like to try a 7’ Diamond table with 4” pockets. It could be the best combination that makes 7’ tables as challenging as a 9’ table with 4.25” pockets. I’d have to try it to be sure but it sure seems like it would be tough & enjoyable.
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Looked awhile back at the 7' Diamonds.
Saw three models, the tightest was 4 1/4.
 
gee i didn't know one pocket had a three foul rule. i guess in the poolrooms for the last umpteen decades no one knew the rules.
and they still don't.
 
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