Pro Pool idea

P

pedro.botta.9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cory Duel posted on Facebook a great idea that I think can take off with the right leadership and organization.

He said to have every league in the country pay .50 per week or match and with that have a national pro tour.

To elaborate on this

I think it's possible if maybe the board of trustees of this new governing body is made of the heads of these leagues plus an outsider. This new governing body will also reap the rewards of advertising. Which in turn can pay pros even more.

I think if you can have qualifier tournaments to make it in to this pro tour. You will have the best get in and get paid.

There should be no charge for league players that have contributed to these tour events since we already paid our dues. And we get to see the best players for what feels like free admission since no one will care about .50c a week.

With a season starting every year, it will be like other sports where every year there will be qualifiers with a few new young faces getting on tour.

So in conclusion, the amatures win be as use they get to see the best play in their towns for free , maybe root for their favorite players...etc. the players win because they get to really be professionals and put their whole effort to pool. And the venues win because by having more pro stops they get to sell more to more fans.

Just my very short .02 cents since this idea can be elaborated in to a more complex working model.


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The idea of the leagues supporting the pros has been discussed many times, with different twists...but...

Very few league folks are interested in pro pool.

As far as contributing league players getting to watch pro tournaments for free? Is that really a perk? I have seen the stands at the events and they ain't crowded.

How about this: 10% of the entry fees of pro events is directed to the production of instructional materials that shall be made available to the public for free. This will make the players better known and then everybody will live happily...
 
When I was a kid I used to fantasize that if I could magically take $1 from everyone, no one would miss it, and I'd be rich.
 
pedro.botta.9 said:
Cory Duel posted on Facebook a great idea that I think can take off with the 1) right leadership and organization.

He said to have every league in the country pay .50 per week or match and with that have a national pro tour.

To elaborate on this

I think it's possible if maybe the board of trustees of this new governing body is made of the heads of these leagues plus an outsider. This new governing body will also reap the rewards of advertising. 2) Which in turn can pay pros even more.

I think if you can have qualifier tournaments to make it in to this pro tour. 3) You will have the best get in and get paid.

There should be no charge for league players that have contributed to these tour events since we already paid our dues. And we get to see the best players for what feels like free admission since no one will care about .50c a week.

With a season starting every year, it will be like other sports where every year there will be qualifiers with a few new young faces getting on tour.

So in conclusion, the amatures win be as use they get to see the best play in their towns for free , maybe root for their favorite players...etc. 4) the players win because they get to really be professionals and put their whole effort to pool. And the venues win because by having more pro stops they get to sell more to more fans.

Just my very short .02 cents since this idea can be elaborated in to a more complex working model.


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I just have to put my own .02 cents here.
I have numbered specific info above on which I will elaborate:
(Sorry if I sound too critical here, pedrobotta)

1) The problem is no idea--not even this one--is going to do anything unless
that leadership comes forth.
From what I see, there is nothing in sight anytime in the near future.

2) I don't see the amateurs giving a rats *** if the pros make more money.
Most of them don't aspire to be pros, anyways. How can they?
They play league once or twice a week because they often have jobs and, though they enjoy pool, they can only
allot so much time to enjoying this wonderful game.

3) No matter what the tournament atmosphere, the best usually get in and usually get paid.
It's always the same group of people winning most everything.

4) It would be nice to do nothing, say nothing, and eat nothing but pool, but hell, it's not necessary to do that to play at a pro level.
So long as one manages his or her time efficiently. There is always a tournament that can be played somewhere.
It's an individual endeavor, at least in the U.S., and pro players don't need any "supporting cast" necessarily to earn some bread
in this sport.
 
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I understand your points but the amateurs though they might not care they would pay anyways because it's a small amount and the league is what they do so they wouldn't stop doing it because of 50cents.

Also having 20 pros making a little money doesn't give any future to pool or to people that would like to play it at the highest level.

You are definitely right about one thing and that is that leadership needs to step up and I don't know who that is.


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Taxation without representation. You want to levy a tax upon pool league players, to make payouts bigger for the almighty players that don't participate in leagues? That's quite the anti- robinhood stance isn't it?
 
commswatch said:
Taxation without representation. You want to levy a tax upon pool league players, to make payouts bigger for the almighty players that don't participate in leagues? That's quite the anti- robinhood stance isn't it?
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I like your twist...I didn't put a lot of thought in to this... as I read it on facebook and thought to post it and see what everyone thought...but to answer your point...maybe the pro players can go to league meetings and instruct or sign things...etc..make some kind of arrangement so that the league can benefit as well...this are all good points...

It has to start somewhere...

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Why don't 32 top players give up 2 games going to 9....500 entry and have another 96 amateur players go 500 each. Play for a 60k prize pool. You might even get some unknowns to place high or win....I'd play something like this and I know lots of others who would too.
 
The thing about amateur golfers is a lot of them aspire to be professionals, because a professional golfer is a great job to have.

Until the same can be said about being a professional pool player, you won't find that many league players that want to go pro.
 
commswatch said:
Taxation without representation. You want to levy a tax upon pool league players, to make payouts bigger for the almighty players that don't participate in leagues? That's quite the anti- robinhood stance isn't it?
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lol I know (or I hope) that you're being facetious. It's not taxation because it's not a government, it's a business charging for a service.

CSI basically does this, at least indirectly, with its pro events that they hold at their nationals. They clearly lose money on them, so they at least indirectly use some of the money that they make from their amateurs to run the pro events, but it's a clear value to their amateurs because they can enjoy watching some pro pool while they're in Vegas. That seems fair and makes sense.

Although $.50/night per player doesn't sound like much, that's a huge chunk of league revenues. Much of nightly league fees stay local, goes to league operators, goes to prizes etc., and only a fraction goes to a national organization. I'd guess you're talking about reducing national league revenues by maybe a third? A half? I'm not sure the exact proportion but just skimming a good piece off a league would require some pretty clear value to be added to that league.
 
Stop a minute and THINK about pool players and the history of the game.

This is a great idea. I didn't know Corey could think that deeply.
ALL of you have missed the reason it won't work and here it is:
The real issue is locating a group of pool people, to be in charge, who won't conspire to steal all of the money.
(under the guise of purely lofty 'reasons', of course)
 
Ask any football fan who Tom Brady is and u won't stump ONE!
Ask ur avg. league player if they've seen SVB play and they'll say WHO??
Not disparaging league players. Just an example. And an experiment I've done myself.
.....Well not the T. Brady part but I'm pretty confident on that.
I find it very sad.
 
If I were a Pro I would use my influence to promote non-league tournaments. It's a higher level of play and a different demographic. These players understand the skill involved at the top level and the value it has.

These players probably would pony up the extra $0.50 per entry that might end up supporting other non-league affiliated tournaments in the form of added money.

The APA doesn't want us players who want to play non-handicapped pool. They want their 3's, 4's and 5's (god bless them, my lovely wife is amongst them) to continue to shoot for the trip to Vegas. Clouding their aspirations with the crazy world of pro pool is not good for business and therefore something that is better left way off radar.

Think league of our own. The tournaments we play. You enter $10, $20, $50, $100, $200 tournaments all the time right? Well then you and everyone like you should be the ones paying dues to our league. And pros should be canvassing the country playing, promoting, teaching during these tournaments getting our people to participate and getting people to pay into our system. Stop thinking the APA wants anything to do with you or has anything to do for you.
 
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Vivian Marran said:
If I were a Pro I would use my influence to promote non-league tournaments. It's a higher level of play and a different demographic. These players understand the skill involved at the top level and the value it has.

These players probably would pony up the extra $0.50 per entry that might end up supporting other non-league affiliated tournaments in the form of added money.

The APA doesn't want us players who want to play non-handicapped pool. They want their 3's, 4's and 5's (god bless them, my lovely wife is amongst them) to continue to shoot for the trip to Vegas. Clouding their aspirations with the crazy world of pro pool is not good for business and therefore something that is better left way off radar.

Think league of our own. The tournaments we play. You enter $10, $20, $50, $100, $200 tournaments all the time right? Well then you and everyone like you should be the ones paying dues to our league. And pros should be canvassing the country playing, promoting, teaching during these tournaments getting our people to participate and getting people to pay into our system Stop thinking the APA wants anything to do with you or has anything to do for you.
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Better idea!
 
This idea actually has merit, but there are major hurdles which would have to be overcome and some major additions to the premise.
1. In order for this to work, the pro tour and amateur league would have to become one entity so the benefits could be shared equally.
2. there would have to be a very clear division of amateur, pro, and a stepping stone between the two. with these clear divisions a ladder system would have be set which would give any amateur, who wishes to do so, a path to becoming a pro.
3. top players from the league would then be fighting to make it to the semi-pro tour, or whatever name it ends up getting
4. any pro who would then hold a "tour card" would have to contractually obligated to do appearances, lessons, clinics, ect... just like pro players from other leagues have similar obligations.
5. as mentioned before, tours would have to travel across the entire county giving the league players free or significantly discounted admission.
6. no with the pro tour, semi pro tour, and amateur league as one entity, someone has to begin soliciting advertisers which should be much easier considering the now enormous audience. in addition, the multiple platform and mediums available to conduct the marketing should be very appealing to a wide array of potential advertisers.

if someone could orchestrate the ideas above, this could really take the entire sport to a new level. the biggest issues i see are that there are too many leagues which divide up the amateur players and the lack of leadership from the pro tour side. The apa or bca are probably the only league with enough members and financial backing to take on this process by themselves, but i just dont see it happening.

the truth is right now pros play this as a sport, and want to be able to make money because they are the best at what they do. that idea is not working. on the other hand, leagues are pure businesses and could care less about "the good of the game", and they are making money hand over fist. we need to start thinking about pro pool as a business .
Tony
 
9andout said:
Better idea!
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Know anyone who runs tournaments who might want to participate in something like this? Tell them to contact me. It can't hurt.

One database
All tournaments
Search for events by location
Sign up online
Pay online
See the results online

We do live in the age of Amazon Web Services. Some of us know how this shit works.
 
Vivian Marran said:
Think league of our own. The tournaments we play. You enter $10, $20, $50, $100, $200 tournaments all the time right? Well then you and everyone like you should be the ones paying dues to our league. And pros should be canvassing the country playing, promoting, teaching during these tournaments getting our people to participate and getting people to pay into our system. Stop thinking the APA wants anything to do with you or has anything to do for you.
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This here ^^^
APA has done a great job developing their product. Why would they let anyone ride their cloak tail?

How many tournaments are organised with Calcutta's running alongside them?
Is it for me to believe that no-one has access to a piggy bank or better still a half decent saving account to off-load .50 of every entree fee and/or Calcutta contributions?

And for any of the pro's who'd be like "NO to .50 of payout going back to US..."
Then F%&K EM as no-one is worth investing in unless they are prepared to invest in themselves first!
 
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If you want to see how to run things, look at snooker overseas. It wasn't that long ago that it was just like pool is now over there. It was considered a smoke filled room at the club kind of game and was on the decline. Barry Hearn came along and did some good marketing and established what is now the world snooker deal, and it's the real deal.

Is it perfect? No. Do the players make a good living off playing? Absolutely without a doubt the top players make a lot of money and those in the middle make a good living.

Me personally, if I want to pay money to the pros, I'll buy a ticket (I play in a BCA league). Them taking money off of leagues in NOT the way to go. Why should they get a free ride off my dime just because the game is not profitable to them? If it works like that, I would like everyone here on AZB to send me a dime for every post you make so yours truly can play pool for a living (though I might need a quarter for every post because I would be getting my brains bashed in by Alex, Shane and the like, and I do have bills myself). :smile:

If the pros want to make more money, they can make a lot of changes, get organized, and promote the game just like snooker did in the past. I just don't see anyone stepping up to the plate for this one, not in the near future. A free ride is definitely not the solution. They won't really appreciate it, and will want more free money later.
 
What are the Pros offering the league players in return for all this money?


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PETROBOY said:
What are the Pros offering the league players in return for all this money?


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A chance to become a pro.

Of course this would be more appealing if that meant anything. But it won't until there's enough money in the sport to make it a financially viable career choice. And soliciting league players is one way to get more money.

It's really a chicken vs egg dilemma.
 
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