Production vs. Custom, DP cues

[Kurt]

Ok, a few more questions for all the pool pro's out there.

#1. I saw a poll about best "production" cue. Can somebody tell me what makes a cue stick a production cue? Does that mean that a human doesn't hand make the cue, but a machine does it instead?

#2. What makes a cue a "custom" cue? If a cue stick is hand made from scratch, but you didn't custom order it (tell him ahead of time what you wanted), is it considered a custom stick? What exactly does custom stick mean?

#3. Listed in the best production cue poll was Schon. I visited their website, and they call themselves "Schon custom cues". So....are they production cues or custom cues, and once again, what's the difference?

#4. I have a few friends here in Tallahassee that love their Dale Perry cue. Can anybody give me some input on what they think about his cues? Also, how come his cues are going for $100 on ebay? Isn't that a little too cheap for a custom cue? Or, are those cues not considered custom cues? And, if they aren't custom cues, how can you tell the difference between a Dale Perry custom cue and a Dale Perry "production" or "manufactured" cue?

#5. In Dale Perry's listings, he calls his cues "1/1 signed cue". What does 1/1 mean?

 

[mattb]

Ok, a few more questions for all the pool pro's out there.

#1. I saw a poll about best "production" cue. Can somebody tell me what makes a cue stick a production cue? Does that mean that a human doesn't hand make the cue, but a machine does it instead?
1. A production cue is mass produced to an extent. There could be hundreds or thousands of people out there running around with basically the same cue. These cues are usually made by a line of assembly workers and is finished by whomever is sitting on the line at the time.


#2. What makes a cue a "custom" cue? If a cue stick is hand made from scratch, but you didn't custom order it (tell him ahead of time what you wanted), is it considered a custom stick? What exactly does custom stick mean?
2. A custom cue is esentially hand made. Everything is touched and worked either by one person or a couple of people. Pieces are selected and arranged in a purposeful fashion and not just grabbed off the line as it comes through a machine. Custom cues can usually be adjusted to fit a players likes. If it was made in this time consuming fashion, and even though it may not have been built for a specific person, it could still be considered a custom cue.

#3. Listed in the best production cue poll was Schon. I visited their website, and they call themselves "Schon custom cues". So....are they production cues or custom cues, and once again, what's the difference?
3. Most Schon cues are production, meeting the above criteria. You can order a Schon tailored to you and built to different specs. This gets out of the production class and into the custom class (there are still differences of opinions on this, but this is my take).

#4. I have a few friends here in Tallahassee that love their Dale Perry cue. Can anybody give me some input on what they think about his cues? Also, how come his cues are going for $100 on ebay? Isn't that a little too cheap for a custom cue? Or, are those cues not considered custom cues? And, if they aren't custom cues, how can you tell the difference between a Dale Perry custom cue and a Dale Perry "production" or "manufactured" cue?
4. Those fall into that difference of opinion lines. The difference between his cue and others is materials. He uses decent material but one example is he uses faux ivory, while others use real ivory. You can pick them apart with differences and not come up with a solid answer one way or another if it is production or custom. If you like it, play with it. I have one I use to take to the bar and i like the way it plays. Will it replace my old Schon for favorite cue? The answer is simply no.

#5. In Dale Perry's listings, he calls his cues "1/1 signed cue". What does 1/1 mean?

5. Every one of those cues he sells is different in some small way. The basic overall design may look similat to the next but ringwork will be different, material inlays will be different, or wood combos will be different. Technically every cue in the world is one of one because no two wood grains are alike.





Hope I muddied the water for you a bit more.

 

[Kurt]

Thanks for the reply. Still looking for answers to my other questions.

 

[TheThaiger]

If I can muddy the waters a little further, may I ask why cues are so goddam expensive?

I can understand a work-intensive handmade custom having a high price but why should a mass produced production cue be so expensive? I'm particularly puzzled as to why plain janes or sneakies aren't that much cheaper than their fancier cousins - I may be jumping to conclusions but it appears to me that their price is kept artificially high because everyone would buy them if they were cheaper and leave the expensive works of art on the shelf. Why buy a $1000 schon with fancy artwork if you can buy a plain jane for $150 instead.

Prices MUST be kept high to keep demand high for premium products. And the mark-up for production cues must be immense. It's a piece for wood, some glue, some plastic and a bit of metal for the joint.

 

[cheapcues.com]

My reply

My replies below indicate my opinion / understanding, but everyone will have a different answer. I don't know if you are shopping for a cue or just curious about the term "custom cue" but if you are shopping I would consider the quality of the materials and construction, and the hit of the cue to be more important than whether it is "custom" or not.

Ok, a few more questions for all the pool pro's out there.

#1. I saw a poll about best "production" cue. Can somebody tell me what makes a cue stick a production cue? Does that mean that a human doesn't hand make the cue, but a machine does it instead?
>>>A production brand is a brand that is made by more than one or two people. More often than not production brands are just that- brands- the name on the cue isn't one person's name but the name of a company.<<<

#2. What makes a cue a "custom" cue? If a cue stick is hand made from scratch, but you didn't custom order it (tell him ahead of time what you wanted), is it considered a custom stick? What exactly does custom stick mean?
>>>Some people will say that if a cue is made on CNC then it's not custom. I say that's not true. Again my take is it comes down to whether one person is making each and every cue from start to finish (or maybe 2 people). or are there several people who come to work every day and do one step in an assembly line. If that one person is designing the cue and setting up all the machines then CNC or not CNC does not determine if it is custom. The term "custom order" can apply to any company- for example you can custom order a McDermott to your specs, but that does not make it a "custom cue"<<<

#3. Listed in the best production cue poll was Schon. I visited their website, and they call themselves "Schon custom cues". So....are they production cues or custom cues, and once again, what's the difference?
>>>Pretty much the same answer as above. Schon has 2 guys who make the cues (Evan Clarke and John Furman), so in my opinion they are a custom cue company. Because they use CNC some people will disagree, but the fact that the cues are being made from start to finish by 2 master craftsmen.<<<

#4. I have a few friends here in Tallahassee that love their Dale Perry cue. Can anybody give me some input on what they think about his cues? Also, how come his cues are going for $100 on ebay? Isn't that a little too cheap for a custom cue? Or, are those cues not considered custom cues? And, if they aren't custom cues, how can you tell the difference between a Dale Perry custom cue and a Dale Perry "production" or "manufactured" cue?
>>>Dale has an interesting approach to making and selling cues. He used to do it the old fashion way- make very few cues, sell them to retail shops at wholesale and his cues would retail for $1000 or so. Now what he is doing is he makes 4 cues a day using CNC, uses the same template for each but changes the combination of materials so each one is different. He then puts them on Ebay for zero reserve auction and takes whatever the market will pay him for them. Because he makes so many and forces them to sale through auction each one usually fetches $125 to $150, which I guess he has decided is enough for him. Going by my definition of the term "custom cue" DP's are in fact custom cues- it's him and one helper making them.<<<

#5. In Dale Perry's listings, he calls his cues "1/1 signed cue". What does 1/1 mean?
>>>Each cue is the only cue made of that particular design (inlay pattern and combination of materials)<<<

 

[cheapcues.com]

If I can muddy the waters a little further, may I ask why cues are so goddam expensive?

I can understand a work-intensive handmade custom having a high price but why should a mass produced production cue be so expensive? I'm particularly puzzled as to why plain janes or sneakies aren't that much cheaper than their fancier cousins - I may be jumping to conclusions but it appears to me that their price is kept artificially high because everyone would buy them if they were cheaper and leave the expensive works of art on the shelf. Why buy a $1000 schon with fancy artwork if you can buy a plain jane for $150 instead.

Prices MUST be kept high to keep demand high for premium products. And the mark-up for production cues must be immense. It's a piece for wood, some glue, some plastic and a bit of metal for the joint.

Re: why the plain janes aren't that much cheaper than the fancier cues, at the higher end you are paying for the name as much as the work that goes into the inlays, plus the shaft is a large component of the cost when you consider that in order for a shaft to stay straight it has to be turned several times over the course of months, if not years. The cost of cues is mostly not materials but time and effort. Hope that helps...

 

[JB Cases]

Ok, a few more questions for all the pool pro's out there.

#1. I saw a poll about best "production" cue. Can somebody tell me what makes a cue stick a production cue? Does that mean that a human doesn't hand make the cue, but a machine does it instead?

Production refers to cues that are made on a production line in mass quantities. Normally they all have the same or very similar specifications so one model purchased in California is essentially the same as one purchased in Florida.

Custom refers to cues that are made to order for the customer to the customer's specifications within the parameters of a cue.

Many small cuemakers use production methods in that their cues are almost all made to the same specifications and only the decoration is different. They still prefer to be called custom cue makers.

Also a production cue company can make a custom cue. Viking for example offers many features which allow the customer to specify how they want the cue built. As such many people own a Viking custom cue.

Generally, custom is any cue that was built specifically for one person with that person's personal preferences.

I believe that the word "custom" as used by Schon and others is more indicative of what they can do rather than what is their normal practice.

#2. What makes a cue a "custom" cue? If a cue stick is hand made from scratch, but you didn't custom order it (tell him ahead of time what you wanted), is it considered a custom stick? What exactly does custom stick mean?

See above.

#3. Listed in the best production cue poll was Schon. I visited their website, and they call themselves "Schon custom cues". So....are they production cues or custom cues, and once again, what's the difference?

See above.

#4. I have a few friends here in Tallahassee that love their Dale Perry cue. Can anybody give me some input on what they think about his cues? Also, how come his cues are going for $100 on ebay? Isn't that a little too cheap for a custom cue? Or, are those cues not considered custom cues? And, if they aren't custom cues, how can you tell the difference between a Dale Perry custom cue and a Dale Perry "production" or "manufactured" cue?

All pool cues are manufactured. The machinery to make cues is pretty much the same for everyone, no one is whittling them with a pocket knife.

Dale Perry makes a semi-production cue. He has set up his shop to make cues in a production manner but he chooses to limit the amount of models he makes per design. So he may have a design with four diamonds and he might make four cues each with a different combination of woods and inlays. Technically each cue is 1 of 1 for that particular combination of wood and inlay. The amount of work to make each cue is practically the same though. As for Dale's ebay prices he has figured out how to sell the cues for an average price that he can live with.

The cue you buy from Dale on Ebay is not a custom cue as it wasn't built to any customer's specs. So in that case it's a bit misleading to call them custom cues but this is the practice nonetheless.

#5. In Dale Perry's listings, he calls his cues "1/1 signed cue". What does 1/1 mean?[/QUOTE]

1/1 in Dale Perry's case means that there was only one cue with that exact combination of wood and inlays. Really it should mean that the design is never going to be repeated either. To me it's like someone getting their car painted in some color that no one else has and then claiming that's it's "the only one in the world" when trying to sell it to pump up the value.

If you think about it 1/1 is redundant. There is no need to number the only one of something.

John - JB custom cases

 

[TATE]

#1. I saw a poll about best "production" cue. Can somebody tell me what makes a cue stick a production cue? Does that mean that a human doesn't hand make the cue, but a machine does it instead?

My opinion is the definition of a production cue is a cue that's made in batches and in sufficent qualtities to be sold off the shelf by the shop or by dealers and distributors.

#2. What makes a cue a "custom" cue? If a cue stick is hand made from scratch, but you didn't custom order it (tell him ahead of time what you wanted), is it considered a custom stick? What exactly does custom stick mean?

A custom cue is a cue that is made in single or very limited quantities by a low valume cue maker. These can be ordered or built to be sold in small quanities by dealers and distributors.

#3. Listed in the best production cue poll was Schon. I visited their website, and they call themselves "Schon custom cues". So....are they production cues or custom cues, and once again, what's the difference?

Almost al of the USA production companies are also custom cue makers. Schon considers themselves to be custom cue makers. They are. They will custom make you a cue on order using their numerous elements of design. Schon also makes production cues and limited production cues. They meet my criteria in #1 - batches in sufficient quanities (same design, in the hundreds) to be shipped to and sold by numerous distributors. Pechauer and Joss are also like this.

#4. I have a few friends here in Tallahassee that love their Dale Perry cue. Can anybody give me some input on what they think about his cues? Also, how come his cues are going for $100 on ebay? Isn't that a little too cheap for a custom cue? Or, are those cues not considered custom cues? And, if they aren't custom cues, how can you tell the difference between a Dale Perry custom cue and a Dale Perry "production" or "manufactured" cue?

I would consider Dale's cues to be dated designs and among the lower tier of custom work. They are cheap but are usually a reliable playing cue - that's about it.

#5. In Dale Perry's listings, he calls his cues "1/1 signed cue". What does 1/1 mean?

Absolutely meaningless. He changes woods, rings, inlay material, number of inlays, stuff like that to make each cue unique and calls it a "1 of 1" design - meaning it's one of a kind. Yet so many look alike. He's way overused that signature and concept to the point it is meaningless in my opinion. It's long overdue for Dale to update his tooling, design, and sales pitch.


Chris

 

[LAlouie]

AZB should make the "search" button bigger and make it readily available for when posters ask questions that have been asked hundreds of times before.

 

[JoeyInCali]

You get better rolls with custom cues.

 

[TheThaiger]

AZB should make the "search" button bigger and make it readily available for when posters ask questions that have been asked hundreds of times before.

Why? Is this place a library? If you're not interested in a thread - or know all there is to know about a subject - don't open it.

 

[Kurt]

#1. I saw a poll about best "production" cue. Can somebody tell me what makes a cue stick a production cue? Does that mean that a human doesn't hand make the cue, but a machine does it instead?

My opinion is the definition of a production cue is a cue that's made in batches and in sufficent qualtities to be sold off the shelf by the shop or by dealers and distributors.

#2. What makes a cue a "custom" cue? If a cue stick is hand made from scratch, but you didn't custom order it (tell him ahead of time what you wanted), is it considered a custom stick? What exactly does custom stick mean?

A custom cue is a cue that is made in single or very limited quantities by a low valume cue maker. These can be ordered or built to be sold in small quanities by dealers and distributors.

#3. Listed in the best production cue poll was Schon. I visited their website, and they call themselves "Schon custom cues". So....are they production cues or custom cues, and once again, what's the difference?

Almost al of the USA production companies are also custom cue makers. Schon considers themselves to be custom cue makers. They are. They will custom make you a cue on order using their numerous elements of design. Schon also makes production cues and limited production cues. They meet my criteria in #1 - batches in sufficient quanities (same design, in the hundreds) to be shipped to and sold by numerous distributors. Pechauer and Joss are also like this.

#4. I have a few friends here in Tallahassee that love their Dale Perry cue. Can anybody give me some input on what they think about his cues? Also, how come his cues are going for $100 on ebay? Isn't that a little too cheap for a custom cue? Or, are those cues not considered custom cues? And, if they aren't custom cues, how can you tell the difference between a Dale Perry custom cue and a Dale Perry "production" or "manufactured" cue?

I would consider Dale's cues to be dated designs and among the lower tier of custom work. They are cheap but are usually a reliable playing cue - that's about it.

#5. In Dale Perry's listings, he calls his cues "1/1 signed cue". What does 1/1 mean?

Absolutely meaningless. He changes woods, rings, inlay material, number of inlays, stuff like that to make each cue unique and calls it a "1 of 1" design - meaning it's one of a kind. Yet so many look alike. He's way overused that signature and concept to the point it is meaningless in my opinion. It's long overdue for Dale to update his tooling, design, and sales pitch.


Chris

Ok, I'm getting a feel of what the difference is between production and custom...but to just be a little more specific:

A Tim Scruggs, as an example. ALL of his sticks are considered custom sticks right? Even though they weren't all custom ordered by customers...they are all still all considered custom sticks since they are made in low volume and are generally one of a kind?

I play with a Tim Scruggs currently, but am looking for a change of pace. I saw Schon won the poll about best production cue, but I'm not sure I necessarily want a production cue, so I'm open for suggestions.