Professional Pool is Dead

Bola-Ocho sed:
<with snippage>
A pool hall hosting a tour should charge ZERO given the quality difference. Having the tour in their pool hall should bring in food and drink sales. That's good enough for them. If they think that's BS, well too bad - don't host tour stops if it's not profitable. If it is profitable, then it's not going to be on account of me. I have a feeling a busy pool hall like Planet 9-ball LOSES money hosting those tour stops. Place is pretty busy on Saturday nights even at 8pm. Tour stops often last well past 8pm on both weekend nights. If I owned the place, I'd never host any of that crap. Ken is a nice guy though, a good player and probably (not his words so I don't know) just wants to support the sport. Just a guess.

Ken Miller is a HUGE supporter of this game and there should be more just like him... imo
Planet 9-Ball no longer charges a door charge and hasn't for some time. Sometimes, I imgaine, there are tours or tournaments where the 'tour' charges a door fee, though I can't name one at the moment.
When Planet 9-Ball hosts the Florida Men's Tour (for example), they utilize about half of the room's tables and the remaining tables are rented out. The people renting and playing on the other tables are oblivious to the tournament and could care less about the big name Pros in attendance. They just want to drink and eat and play the jukebox and whoop and holler and have fun (while yakking on their cell phones).
When I'm TD at Planet 9 Ball, I impliment the no talking while your opponent is at the table, no standing/looming around the table, no smoking at the table, no cell phones during the match, etc. But the tournament only uses about 1/3 or 1/4 of the rooms tables and I can't/won't impose no music, no movement, no fun rules on the other customers, despite the complaing of 'some' tournament participants...

Doug
(some HOFers are more trouble than they're worth... imo)
 
Smorgass Bored said:
Sure, 70,000 screaming fans attended the football game or to a lesser extent a table tennis match or volleyball game, etc. Pool is not spectator fan friendly and it isn't because it's played in dirty smokey poolrooms.

I have attended many pool tournaments with the biggest names in pool playing each other and a poor attentance. Why ? I'll tell you why. In many (but not all) instances, you pay a door charge for General Admission or V.I.P. seating. Once seated, you aren't supposed to talk or move or let your cell phone ring or drink beer and whoop & holler or rattle your popcorn or potato chip bag. Don't wiggle your feet. Don't play music on the jukebox. Don't smoke or order food and expect to eat it within 100" of a match. I've seen Hall Of Famers chastise PAYING fans for whispering in their friend's ear, eating hot wings, sneezing, coughing, wiggling their white tennis shoes, having their cell phone ring some aggravating tune.It's too hot, too cold, too humid, too dry, too early or too late to play.

It's no wonder that the masses aren't rushing to pay (or not pay) to watch the prima donna's play in a funeral atmosphere. Where you get to watch the PLAYERS rant and rave, pout, complain about the table or conditions and all the while,the fans are required to sit as mannequins. Spectating pool tournaments sucks as 'entertainment'.

Ask AZBer Murray Tucker about getting called down in front of everyone by a HOFer at Planet 9 Ball. Or, ask RSBer Joey A. about the senior tournament in Biloxi, Miss. or just ask ME. Btw, I always sit still and remain quiet while at pool tournaments, but it isn't really enjoyable and pool tournaments can't be compared to other spectator sports, where people are allowed to be people and enjoy themselves.

Doug
(all imo, of course)
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C'mon Doug you're kidding right? I've been at Planet 9-ball and Strokers and watched the pros play and never had any problems like that. And it is expected for Earl to get mad. The only question is when.

The worst offenders are other pros who are walking around the playing tables or talking loud. Or bumping into each other. Ever sit next to Danny DiLiberto?

Jake
 
Bola Ocho said:
For some reason, pool just does not attract good people.

Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't attract positive people who want to invest in the sport. You need talent to get something going, whether it be a business or whatever. Poolhalls are not places filled with talent. Great business minds and bigshots don't hang out in pool halls or are interested in pool. These people dont' like SMELLY SH1TTY SMOKEY POOL HALLS filled with degenerate dirtbags.

A couple of you in this thread said that it isn't becuase of smelly, dirty, smokey pool halls. BS! It IS because of that. It is a major turn off for most of society. And until pool attracts a whole new class of people, quality and talent will never get involved. Instead, there will be a few semi-decent business minds in the industry portion, and consumers and nothing else. That's how it is now. The rest are conmen and thieves. That's it. All predatory sleazy crap. .
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Now you sound just like Harry. Is that you Harry?

Next I will expect you to start following the Women.

LOL

Jake
 
Response for Smorgas bored and Bolo Ocho

I do agree with a lot of what you say as it is true but the points you make are easily contradicted depending on where you live and how much exposure you have had to the game.
For instance Smorg talks about all the rules you must abide by and grief you can get whille watching a tournament but on the other hand there are tournaments that you do not even think of those things. The DCC being one of them. I attended twice now and never once saw a problem with anything you mention. Heck they play music constantly, the p.a. announcer is constantly going during play, cell phones going off everywhere and one year cameras and announcers from people trying to film for an HBO special taping all the woofing(next to tournament tables). The difference here at this tournament is everyone expects it and accepts it, so it is ok. So your reason does not hold water in this instance, not that it doesn't at other venues. But it does not explain why it works at a golf tournament and always has. There would never be a golf tournament that allowed anything like what goes on at the DCC. Yet golf survives. I do not have the answer and I struggle for an explanation why. I tend to agree that people just do not really understand the game and how hard itis but how easy it can be made to look.
As for Bolo comments about pool will always be smokey ass filthy and not attractive I agree in the past but for years now that has changed. There are probably more pool rooms in California than any other state and we have no smoking now for years. So explain that. The clientele has changed. The other night in my room I had some city officials, families with their kids, and a whole new kind of clientele. So your argument does not match the trend as it would years ago. Pool started out as a poor mans sport where golf started out as a rich mans sport. That is the difference in why we are so far behind. Golfers hustled but no one knew about it on the course but do it in a pool room and the nation knows about it.
So guys, though I agree with most of your examples there are a lot of contradictions and arguments for the other side. Like I said it might depend on where you live and grew up. And your exposure.
 
jjinfla said:
C'mon Doug you're kidding right? I've been at Planet 9-ball and Strokers and watched the pros play and never had any problems like that.
Jake
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Jake, you may have been to Planet 9 Ball a handful of times in the past nine years, but I've been there over 2,800 times. I've been the TD for approx. 500 tournaments during that period and attended almost ALL of the big tournaments. I think I'll take MY word concerning what I'VE seen, but thanks for you input (as always).... imo
Btw, I was TD day before yesterday and Will Bilbrey won the tournament, while Jose from Strokers won the amateur tournament going on at the same time.

Doug
 
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jjinfla said:
Now you sound just like Harry. Is that you Harry?

Next I will expect you to start following the Women.

LOL

Jake
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F-that.


I stopped watching women's pool in the 90's. I'd rather not watch pool than watch the women.


3 reasons.

1] the quality of the play isn't that great.

2] commentators are awful.

3] I don't find them attractive. Unlike the 65 year old dudes at the pool hall that probably keep these female players in their spank-bank.


Although, I do think they are FAR better ambassadresses of the sport than men, and are much nicer people in general.
 
Bola Ocho said:
Smorgass is right. Although, it isn't the only reason pool sucks ass in America.

I was at a tournament in Planet 9-ball, when a hall of famer walked over and complained that I was shaking my foot. I'd apologize IF they were facing my direction when shooting. Their shot was in the opposite direction where I wasn't visible. Anyway, this particular HOF'er is notorious (at least to me) for intentionally pointing out non-existant or unintentional sharking not because it bother them, but to create a scene or a distraction for their opponent. This is actually THEIR SHARKING move. I've seen it done on 3 other Florida tour stops. It's over the head of most people. They think it bothers them, when it's just a sleazy move.


That being said, I used to go to see Florida tour stops as they have some serious talent present. But a few things kill it for me. Like the ridiculous door or seat charges, and the shitty atmosphere. I love pool, but I don't love it so much to sit there and suffer for hours just to watch good patterns and good strokes all day. I used to when I was more of a newbie, but not anymore. I no longer go to see them. They're not worth my time.


About the door/seat charges. It isn't the price that is expensive. They're cheap. It's just that as cheap as they are, they're not worth it. The attraction is not a good enough value to charge for. Sorry, that's just the truth. Now, the IPT is something worth paying for. They aren't nazis to the fans and the venue is nice and the quality is there. At least the environment is good, but the players are still idiots and some of them attack fans verbally. IPT charges $20. A pool hall hosting a tour should charge ZERO given the quality difference. Having the tour in their pool hall should bring in food and drink sales. That's good enough for them. If they think that's BS, well too bad - don't host tour stops if it's not profitable. If it is profitable, then it's not going to be on account of me. I have a feeling a busy pool hall like Planet 9-ball LOSES money hosting those tour stops. Place is pretty busy on Saturday nights even at 8pm. Tour stops often last well past 8pm on both weekend nights. If I owned the place, I'd never host any of that crap. Ken is a nice guy though, a good player and probably (not his words so I don't know) just wants to support the sport. Just a guess.

As for the pool is dead. Yeah, pool isn't a spectator sport. People would rather play it than watch it. Not many people watch bowling, they'd rather go play it. The less accessible the sport, the more it is viewed. Golf is not as accessible. Then there are the true athletic sports, which due to their physical nature, exclude entire masses of people from participating. I dunno about you guys, but I'm not in shape to play football or soccer or basketball like I used to, and I'm still young with no health issues. Also, pool isn't really exciting to watch. You have to know a lot about it to be impressed by a shot. It takes a certain level of knowledge in advance to appreciate the game. That's something most people don't have. There's a STEEP learning curve to pool. That's another factor. If you don't know about pool, it just looks like balls being banged around. Awesome position play just appears to be luck. It is easy to assume those shots are easy. For whatever reason, no one thinks a 350 yard drive in Golf is easy. Other games/sports do not appear as trivial, lucky or simple/easy as pool to the newbie.

Anyway, this thread in some form or another has been done to death on chat forums. In defense of the IPT, everything, I mean everything the thread starter complained about is something the KT and the IPT originally wanted to change or combat. They want to transform that image. If you think about it, every single one of these grievances could be said about other games or sports. They had to start somewhere. They didn't start off super-popular. The question then becomes, why isn't pool ever making ground? It's never had decent management or unity. Till the IPT, which who knows if it will survive. At least they are trying or making an attempt. Can't transform something in a year or even 5 years. Which is why I think the IPT plan is in trouble. It is too much money all at once. That demands that there be a big return all at once. KT isn't going to spend this money for the next 5-6 years till it starts turning around.

For some reason, pool just does not attract good people.

Sorry, but it's true. It doesn't attract positive people who want to invest in the sport. You need talent to get something going, whether it be a business or whatever. Poolhalls are not places filled with talent. Great business minds and bigshots don't hang out in pool halls or are interested in pool. These people dont' like SMELLY SH1TTY SMOKEY POOL HALLS filled with degenerate dirtbags.

A couple of you in this thread said that it isn't becuase of smelly, dirty, smokey pool halls. BS! It IS because of that. It is a major turn off for most of society. And until pool attracts a whole new class of people, quality and talent will never get involved. Instead, there will be a few semi-decent business minds in the industry portion, and consumers and nothing else. That's how it is now. The rest are conmen and thieves. That's it. All predatory sleazy crap. KT and the IPT is just one rich guy taking a stab at possibly finding a fortune where others have overlooked. Time will tell. But that's just one guy. Golf wasn't built by one guy. Poker wasn't built by one guy. Tennis wasn't built by one guy....and none of them were built in a decade, it took much longer.
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Welcome to the neighborhood!!

Do you hate everybody, or just pool players in general
 
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