Proposed rules for tournament slow play in One Pocket and Banks

[maha]

in the pool room guys that send the balls up table get no action and sit on the side.
that is their penalty. they are basically barred from playing.

do the same in the tournaments and let those that play slow sit and watch others play.
in every sport there is a severe penalty of some kind for slow play. they dont change the rules to accommodate slow players they punish them.

and some complain about no interest in pool. duh!

 

[lfigueroa]

I think that rather than a celebration you can take it as a caution and as support for the Grady rule.

You shouldn't have to change the rules and the base nature of the game because of one guy.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

in the pool room guys that send the balls up table get no action and sit on the side.
that is their penalty. they are basically barred from playing.

do the same in the tournaments and let those that play slow sit and watch others play.
in every sport there is a severe penalty of some kind for slow play. they dont change the rules to accommodate slow players they punish them.

and some complain about no interest in pool. duh!

And that is as it should be, same for guys that play too slow.

Lou Figueroa

 

[iusedtoberich]

And that is as it should be, same for guys that play too slow.

Lou Figueroa

So a TD is supposed to vet all the players beforehand, know their one pocket playing style, know their general shooting style, know their bathroom break habits, etc.? That may be possible in a local 8 man event. How about a regional event with 32-64? Or Sullivan's event with 400?

 

[iusedtoberich]

By that logic, I've yet to see a TD kick out Bassivich (when he was alive and playing), or Willams, or today's Hennessy.

 

[lfigueroa]

So a TD is supposed to vet all the players beforehand, know their one pocket playing style, know their general shooting style, know their bathroom break habits, etc.? That may be possible in a local 8 man event. How about a regional event with 32-64? Or Sullivan's event with 400?

Other than maybe the Derby the turnouts for 1pocket events are usually not that large.

And, the majority of 1pocket players are known entities. In the typical regional event you get the usual suspects and the TD knows who the problem children are. At the DCC the real issue has always been the table to entry ratio. And nowadays they have officials wandering the various rooms attempting to implement strategies to speed things up.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

By that logic, I've yet to see a TD kick out Bassivich (when he was alive and playing), or Willams, or today's Hennessy.

No reason they can't start now ;-)

Lou Figueroa

 

[maha]

yea and if they dont know the guy and he is playing slow, just go up to him and give a warning. second time its a decent penalty next time its very severe or even loss of match.

all of a sudden they play faster you would also.

 

[lfigueroa]

yea and if they dont know the guy and he is playing slow, just go up to him and give a warning. second time its a decent penalty next time its very severe or even loss of match.

all of a sudden they play faster you would also.

Exactly.

If a habitually slow player knows the TD has cast the evil eye on him it’s amazing how speedy they can get.

Regrettably, the more common approach seems to be to monkey with the rules and punish the whole field.

Lou Figueroa

 

[iusedtoberich]

Well there are slow players in general (like Hennessy), and then there are long one pocket games made by normal speed players, because that's just how that particular game was best to play.

Say its the still early portion of the game and the CB gets behind the stack and the best move is a safety to draw the CB to the end rail, but the stack has to be hit with speed to do that, thus beginning the process of knocking the balls up table. Then the other player sees that as the best move also. They both repeat until the entire stack is knocked up table. Then all the balls slowly have to be put back into play for scoring, or banked one at a time. This type of game didn't really have a middle portion, it skipped right to the end portion, but with almost the full rack to go. Neither player was "slow", but it still turned into a very long game.

What's the TD going to do in that scenario?

My opinion is most of the long games in one hole (or banks) are due to scenarios like this, rather than habitually slow poke players like Hennessy and crew.

 

[lfigueroa]

Well there are slow players in general (like Hennessy), and then there are long one pocket games made by normal speed players, because that's just how that particular game was best to play.

Say its the still early portion of the game and the CB gets behind the stack and the best move is a safety to draw the CB to the end rail, but the stack has to be hit with speed to do that, thus beginning the process of knocking the balls up table. Then the other player sees that as the best move also. They both repeat until the entire stack is knocked up table. Then all the balls slowly have to be put back into play for scoring, or banked one at a time. This type of game didn't really have a middle portion, it skipped right to the end portion, but with almost the full rack to go. Neither player was "slow", but it still turned into a very long game.

What's the TD going to do in that scenario?

My opinion is most of the long games in one hole (or banks) are due to scenarios like this, rather than habitually slow poke players like Hennessy and crew.

Sure that happens and if it does that’s OK.

It’s not cut and dried and ultimately the call should be up to the TD’s discretion. Sometimes an uptable game happens but *at a decent level of play,* which is what we’re broadly talking about, maybe not as often as you’d think.

Lou Figueroa

 

[crabbcatjohn]

Exactly.

If a habitually slow player knows the TD has cast the evil eye on him it’s amazing how speedy they can get.

Regrettably, the more common approach seems to be to monkey with the rules and punish the whole field.

Lou Figueroa

Eventually every tournament is going to have the Grady rule. Its coming and we both know it....
I know you don't like it... But its coming..

I know I strongly disagree how it's being implemented incorrectly to partially satisfy a non related ball spot rule...

 

[lfigueroa]

Eventually every tournament is going to have the Grady rule. Its coming and we both know it....
I know you don't like it... But its coming..

I know I strongly disagree how it's being implemented incorrectly to partially satisfy a non related ball spot rule...

No, I don’t think the Grady rule will become prevalent and will certainly never be popular.

Players want to play 1pocket, not a bastardized version of the game. Will there be more events in the near term with goofy rules? Sure. But I think that will eventually be a failed venture.

Lou Figueroa
I believe sanity
will eventually prevail

 

[garczar]

Eventually every tournament is going to have the Grady rule. Its coming and we both know it....
I know you don't like it... But its coming..

I know I strongly disagree how it's being implemented incorrectly to partially satisfy a non related ball spot rule...

For tournament play i agree. Can't run events with matches causing log-jams. I think the old-school rules are fine for 'action' play but tournaments need to run on a schedule. The GR does not bastardize the game imo. Grady ran all his events that way for yrs and afaik not many complained. Also, most sweators/viewers do not like watching these log-jam bunt-fests. I love good 1p but if all the balls go up table i'm gone.

 

[lfigueroa]

For tournament play i agree. Can't run events with matches causing log-jams. I think the old-school rules are fine for 'action' play but tournaments need to run on a schedule. The GR does not bastardize the game imo. Grady ran all his events that way for yrs and afaik not many complained. Also, most sweators/viewers do not like watching these log-jam bunt-fests. I love good 1p but if all the balls go up table i'm gone.

I know Grady used his rules at one or two events… which events are you talking about because I’m not even sure he used them at his NE nor his Gulf event?

And a one pocket tournament can be run with traditional rules. I know this because Red Shoes in Chicago has been doing it for years. Their solution is just as I’ve previously alluded to: a no BS TD.

Lou Figueroa

 

[crabbcatjohn]

I've never played a non tournament match using the Grady rule. Not even to practice it...lol

We have had the Grady rule in most of the .org tournaments for a while now.

I played in a tournament a few weeks ago at a big joint that didn't play three foul...

The European .org tournament spotted the ball closest to the head string using the Grady rule. I don't know how you stop the wedge or speed up play if you don't spot the balls that are out of play like the balls in the wedge... lol

A different type solution is when you have a bracket that runs way behind, shorten the next races in that bracket until it catches up...

To make a quick point here...There needs to be a standardized rule set for all tournament play as a guideline. Thats what people that run most of these are trying to do out there. But its a process with a lot of push back.. Probably the most difficult type tournament in the world to run.

 

[garczar]

I know Grady used his rules at one or two events… which events are you talking about because I’m not even sure he used them at his NE nor his Gulf event?

And a one pocket tournament can be run with traditional rules. I know this because Red Shoes in Chicago has been doing it for years. Their solution is just as I’ve previously alluded to: a no BS TD.

Lou Figueroa

I respect your opinion bro. Just think that some form of 'speed things up' rule is not a bad idea for 1p events. I think doing so would get more people playing the game. Then guys like you could rob them.

 

[maha]

if you must change the rules for tournaments then have the early rounds go to 5 balls instead of 8. this way they will go much faster and give the weak players more chances to get close to the payout money.
so that increases the fields of weak players and prize pool.
of course the very top players will complain as they dont get all of the lions share of the money every time.

 

[maha]

going to 8 isnt set in stone as most all games where someone is spotted goes to less unless its lopsided and then the better player may go higher than 8 or 9.

 

[lfigueroa]

going to 8 isnt set in stone as most all games where someone is spotted goes to less unless its lopsided and then the better player may go higher than 8 or 9.

What -- you haven't seen the tablets?

Lou Figueroa