Proud Professionals

[jay helfert]

Okay, Jay. I love you and everything, but you're missing something.

If you don't recall, I was a 3 game dog that night playing Efren. We were both 4 and oh in the pool tournament. Prior 3 weeks to that, I lose about 25- to 30,000 to Efren gambling in L.A. and another spot.

I bet about 20-some hundred on myself, being a 3 game dog to Efren, and beat him 11 to 4 in the U.S. Open. Then I turned around and gambled with him playing one-pocket. We were betting like 1200 to 1600 a game. Martin, Cruise, and Gretchen Renell the casting director were there sweating it. You might have been there with them. I can't believe you don't remember that. I beat him 5 ot 6 games in a row. He was giving me 9 to 7 and 10 to 7 playing one-pocket, and I drilled him.

After he quit me, I was so mad because he had me so much loser, it was a joke, but I was happy I beat him and got a little revenge.

Then I was called in the back office to start reading lines for several hours. Do you remember that, Jay?

As far as me playing Danny Medina, what were we playing? Were we playing in a tournament, or were we gambling? Me and Danny didn't ever gamble that much, so it must have been a tournament. Was me playing Danny at the Caeser's Palace tourney that you are referring to? That might have been, but I definitely remember me playing Efren right there in Norfolk in front of the movie people and everybody else.

Thank goodness you were there to answer the phone when the movie people were looking for me. If that hadn't happened, I might not have gotten the part. We both remember that, don't we? I did want to change the lines. You're right, but it was all scripted, with a few ad libs of mine, i.e., "You got lucky, you luckly little pr*ck." LOL!

Anyway, Jay, good to hear from you. I don't usually post much on these websites, but I felt I needed to do a little damage control when parties get on here and write about matters when they weren't even there.

I've got to ask you this, though. Did you fall asleep when I was playing Efren, or you just don't remember?

Sorry Keith, I got your matches mixed up. You played Danny in Vegas and Efren in Norfolk. Hey, it's a long time ago and I'm a lot older than you. Yes, Gretchen was the Casting Director and Barbara Del Fina was the Producer. It was Babara's office that called my house the first time. And maybe Gretchen after that who sent the script.

Marty was in Vegas with Richard Price, who wrote the new script. They watched you play there also. You may also remember that I was in with you a couple of times gambling with Efren, the last time in Chicago. Overall, you've got me big winners though. Just one last question. What's our number?

P.S. I do remember us writing our "suggestions" for the lines in the margin of the script. I asked you what you would say in that spot and you told me. And they used some of them!

 

[av84fun]

Thats why I put a good living and not average. I think a professional athlete should make a good living if they can do something others can't. $100,000 takes more than a regular job, it take a good one. It isn't unrealistic, you didn't read it properly.

I can see both sides of the debate between you and Scott...and I tend to come down on your side.

Even including roadies/hustlers who wouldn't play in a tournament if their life depended on it...like Vern Elliot who is in the One Pocket Hall of Fame without every playing in a single tournament as far as I know..so even includng those types, there are not 500 players on planet earth who can hang with the top name pros consistently enough to be other than "field players."

When championship talent is THAT rare it is highly unusual and quite unfortunate that the available prize money is so poor.

By comparison, there are hundeds of millions of people in the world who earn more that $100,000.00 per year. And there are tens of thousands of people, sorted by profession, who make at least that much money.

Pool players are WAY under-compensated based upon the rarity their skills.

Having said that, prize money is by far not the only way to make money as a professional in any celebrity endeavor and on average, pool pros have been pretty lazy..or put more kindly, quite uncreative, about promoting themselves.

Jeanette Lee, who is MAYBE tenth on the prize money list over the past decade is reputed to make $750k a year from her celebrity status that she has worked VERY, VERY hard to achieve.

Yo Earl! Wanna get RICH??? Get someone to design you a pool cue made out of nearly indestructable space-age composites...some of which are much lighter but much stronger than STEEL...get used to playing with it...and then try (and fail) to BUST it at every tournament you play in!!!!!

(-:

 

[elvicash]

Pro pool is not strong in America, or really anywhere in the world financially. If it was high paying somewhere then our players would be there getting the cash the same as the Fili players came here in the 80's.

Pool needs to attract the sponsors. Pool needs to be real before the sponsors will come. Catch 22 - Got to have more missions

However the cause of the no attraction to sponsors is obvious from this sorry a** thread. We (AZ) are some of the most stalwart pool lovers the US and we spend some serious time on this site, which is a virtual poolroom, which has a variety of attendees. Many of these seem to think pool is what it is take it or leave it. If you want to play, play for the game the money is what it is, so you know going in what you are buying into to as a pro player. Why isn't Loti??? or whoever that helps sell another sport offering thoughts on building up pool, using their contacts to cast pool in a positive light. JAM is reacting to slights from years ago and to little things people say here on AZ, I think some people are getting off on getting her going and pi**ing off the Keither. this is so petty where else can you sign up for a free acct, drop some serious negative crap about a champion of any sport and get him to respond either directly or through his wife. I guess this is good sport for some petty minded nits.

Scott Lee is right 100k is a good living in the US and above what most people make. He is wrong thinking it is too high because to succeed at pool takes a special player and special people who can deliver a product a should get paid. We need to set our goals high, not low for our elite pro players.

People should make more when they are on the road a lot. I pay my help more because I require travel from my employees. I pay my help travel time and their expenses. When I quote projects I calc the mileage .485/mile 125/day hotel, 40/day meals if far 70/day rental car air fare is out the roof. This over a grand a week and you have not had any real pool expenses yet, time, entry fees etc.

High caliber pool is a product that has not been packaged and sold very well in years if ever and currently is usually only consumed live at the tournaments currently. That drivel they have on TV is a poor product, they make a big deal out a jump shot or a combo but cut away when a player is getting shape to a pinpoint area with cue ball still rolling and come back after a commercial break with big score change.

A new product is being offered but it has not exploded yet. The TAR matches, a new concept in distribution and it has been well received and copied by others, but it has not yet found the mainstream. I would think a lot of these league players would be interested in watching live pool but they do not know it is out there. If they were having large sells of like 10,000 or more viewers on Internet PPV, then this method would attract the non pool sponsors and this could be mainstreamed. I hope they continue and I hope players support them more. However they are not providing any added money to these 2 man tourneys, they are just distributing it so others can watch. I know the cash is not there to kick in yet but at least the matches are being made available.

Now comes Mr. Griffin he wants to find a way to add some money. People are starting to knock him on this site with negative postings in threads, non players sounding out for no good reason. Why act like that????

Why do people have a problem with money for the pro's. Until the pro's make some real cash there will never be much respect for the game of pool and it will never be thought of as a sport, just a table game.

Back to the thread and what should a pro be able to make. I think to start out small and grow the prize fund is realistic. I think the concept of having a card to be guaranteed entry is good and I think a card should guarantee a minimum payout. I think you have to have a good shot at 100k/yr after expenses to be worth being a pro. I think top 3 or 4 pro's need to avg 500k/yr to get mainstream attn. Maybe 32 cards. 20 tourneys / season . Win one torney guarentted card next yard. Cards handed out to winners first then the up the money list till out of cards. No card players have to play the qualifier every week 2 or 3 day qual has higher entry, no cash gets you in the tourney this week if you are in top XXX of qualifier. Do single elimination in big tourney, draw every round, no rebuys. Big tourney Winner breaks must win match by 2 games races somewhat long 11 or 13.

Sponsors - Best players will show up at the top. Pay them to play the best pool ever. I will buy your product Coke, Chevy, Aunt Milly's wheat bread even McDonalds.