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Ballistic Billiards

Ballistic Billiards

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People are always talking about throwing balls with spin (SIT - spin induced throw)

I can throw it more this way or I had to throw it in, etc.

I'm of the belief that you can't transfer enough spin, on a clean
set of balls, to make a significant change to the trajectory of the OB.

Someone here can surely convince me that I'm wrong.
 
You are wrong. It is in every recent pool book written that you can "throw" a ball with english. set up a shot strait down the middle of the table and hit a stop shot. It should go to the middle diamond on the long rail. now do the same shot with english. it will throw it the opposite direction of the english (right english throws left). even if you count this on squirt (saying that the cue ball is just "squirting" the opposite direction of the english), you could correct a little and it will still be "thrown". Hope this helps.
 
it's simple physics. Each action has an opposite and equal reaction. You can easily miss a shot because you didn't adjust "your angle" for the english you put on it. In fact, that's the single biggest learning curve with beginners.
 
If you want to test it there are amny ways. Set up a frozen two ball combination lined up straight at a pocket but say fiive feet away. A lot of people will lokk at that and just fire at it and act very surprised when it does not go in. Depending on which side you hit it will determine which way it gets "thrown" off the line of centers. Now set up the same shot and add another object ball so you have a frozen "dead" three ball combination shot. You can hit this anywhere and still make the ball becauase the third ball will counteract the throw in the the oppisite direction. In other words it will cancel out the throw exactly and the ball will follow the line of centers.

Set this up with two balls frozen to each other and the rail with the balls at the second diamond farthest from your intended pocket. Unless you have very generous pockets the frozen two ball combo will get thrown out of the pocket. Now set up a frozen three ball combo on the rail, you can be blind and hit that shot and it will hug the rail the whole way. It will be very obvious that the balls are being affected by throw. An old hustlers trick is to let a sucker shoot the two ball frozen shot a couple of times without success, then secretly moisten the contact point between the two balls and bet that it will go. When you wet the contact point you reduce the friction and eliminate the throw affect. So play with this and see if you do not believe that balls do get thrown off. This is why the majority of players will miss so many "dead" combos.
 
You are indeed wrong.

This has been discussed ad nauseam several times here.

There are countless shots that can only be made with throw. The best example is 2 balls frozen together, first ball on the spot, second ball lined up in back of it - frozen. Lined up as perfectly as possible. Now take the CB and put it on the other spot.

Now combo-bank the second ball into either corner.

You CAN impart enough spin on the first ball, which travels to the second ball, to bank the second ball in. Just be sure to aim properly and remember your spin will be R-L-R (or vice-versa) so you probably have to aim on the opposite side of the head ball that your instincts tell you.

BTW, where did the acronym SIT come from? Never heard it before. Anyways, it's redundant.

-von
 
coopdeville said:
I'm of the belief that you can't transfer enough spin, on a clean
set of balls, to make a significant change to the trajectory of the OB.
Click to expand...
It isn't the transferred spin that changes the trajectory of the OB. In fact, spin (right or left) doesn't affect the path of any ball, including the cue ball. When throw occurs, it is because the OB takes off immediately on a revised trajectory. On a very clean set of balls, or waxed or polished balls, the throw will be reduced but still present. On a dirty set of balls, you might get a couple of degrees worth of throw.
 
I was playing 9-ball last night and I had a 5-6 combo come up where the 5 and 6 were alomost froze together and near the rail two diamonds from the right corner pocket. When looking at the line of the 6 from the 5, it goes right into the rail. However, with extreme outside english, alas, it goes in the pocket. The average player looking at that shot would just slam it and hope something drops somewhere. This is where knowledge of SIT; which I can assure you exists, works for you. Not only did I make the 6 in the corner, I got perfect shape on the 5 too.
 
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Exactly. Or set up 2 frozen balls in the middle of the table, with the 2nd ball aimed up to miss a corner pocket by about 2 full inches.

Not "ON"? Sure it is! Just throw it in. OB needs to be several feet away - the more "off" it is, the more room you need to correct it. There are limits, based on cloth, ball condition, etc., but it is throw that makes it possible.

-von


Randy9Ball said:
I was playing 9-ball last night and I had a 5-6 combo come up where the 5 and 6 were alomost froze together and near the rail two diamonds from the right corner pocket. When looking at the line of the 6 from the 5, it goes right into the rail. However, with extreme outside english, alas, it goes in the pocket. The average player looking at that shot would just slam it and hope something drops somewhere. This is where knowledge of SIT; which I can assure you exists, works for you. Not only did I make the 6 in the corner, I got perfect shape on the 5 too.
Click to expand...
 
Rarelymisses said:
It isn't the transferred spin that changes the trajectory of the OB. In fact, spin (right or left) doesn't affect the path of any ball, including the cue ball. When throw occurs, it is because the OB takes off immediately on a revised trajectory. On a very clean set of balls, or waxed or polished balls, the throw will be reduced but still present. On a dirty set of balls, you might get a couple of degrees worth of throw.
Click to expand...
Nice explanation.

Jim
 
ok

WesleyW said:
Watch the video:
http://www.easypooltutor.com/article251.html
Click to expand...

you didn't notice the change in the cut angle
and the fact that the OB isn't spinning? :confused:

Not "ON"? Sure it is! Just throw it in. OB needs to be several feet away - the more "off" it is, the more room you need to correct it. There are limits, based on cloth, ball condition, etc., but it is throw that makes it possible.
Click to expand...

There is also what is know as contact induced throw.
Which may or may not be what you're talking about

It isn't the transferred spin that changes the trajectory of the OB. In fact, spin (right or left) doesn't affect the path of any ball, including the cue ball. When throw occurs, it is because the OB takes off immediately on a revised trajectory. On a very clean set of balls, or waxed or polished balls, the throw will be reduced but still present. On a dirty set of balls, you might get a couple of degrees worth of throw.
Click to expand...

So extra friction causes you to aim differently?

-coop

If this is simple physics, someone has to have the math to back it up.
seems fairly simple.
 
Last edited:
VonRhett said:
Exactly. Or set up 2 frozen balls in the middle of the table, with the 2nd ball aimed up to miss a corner pocket by about 2 full inches.

Not "ON"? Sure it is! Just throw it in. OB needs to be several feet away - the more "off" it is, the more room you need to correct it. There are limits, based on cloth, ball condition, etc., but it is throw that makes it possible.

-von
Click to expand...
You may find a difference in throw between balls that are frozen and balls that are just close together.
 
coopdeville said:
you didn't notice the change in the cut angle
and the fact that the OB has no spin? :confused:
Click to expand...

Mayb that video isn't that clear. This would been better:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/HSV4-9.htm

If there wasn't throw, you will still see some white side of the objectball. In the video, you see that the objectbal turned into a full colored ball.

I think this video shows cleary there is throw.
 
Whenever this subject comes up a huge debate begins again. Why not let someone who is obviously wrong think they're right, can't hurt anything but their own game. As for me, I'll continue to throw balls in that aren't normally makeable. I hope to meet more opponents who think spin induced throw is a myth, makes them less of a threat to me because their shot options have limitations.
 
Klopek said:
Whenever this subject comes up a huge debate begins again. Why not let someone who is obviously wrong think they're right, can't hurt anything but their own game. As for me, I'll continue to throw balls in that aren't normally makeable. I hope to meet more opponents who think spin induced throw is a myth, makes them less of a threat to me because their shot options have limitations.
Click to expand...


I was thinking the same thing ... better for me when I play someone who doesn't understand basic Physics!!!!!

:D

Russ.......
 
WesleyW said:
Mayb that video isn't that clear. This would been better:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/HSV4-9.htm

If there wasn't throw, you will still see some white side of the objectball. In the video, you see that the objectbal turned into a full colored ball.

I think this video shows cleary there is throw.
Click to expand...

In the video, the cue ball is not spinning (no english) but is rolling on the black line. To me, this indicates the result is collision induced throw, not SIT.
Steve
 
coopdeville said:
People are always talking about throwing balls with spin (SIT - spin induced throw)

I can throw it more this way or I had to throw it in, etc.

I'm of the belief that you can't transfer enough spin, on a clean
set of balls, to make a significant change to the trajectory of the OB.

Someone here can surely convince me that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...


Stick to your guns my man.

The real answer is; Is it

REPEATABLE
RELIABLE
DEPENDABLE
MEASUREABLE

and does it happen ever time?.....................randyg
 
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