prove me wrong

[Thunderball]

I'll confess to not having read every post here but I'll add a thought or two as well.

For my money,throw exists without question.I find it becomes most relevent when banking.It will give you a pocket that is otherwise blocked ime due to the action of the other rail and not just the table travel.
Also,if your really juicing the CB with left or right (for shape) while banking you it will leave a ball on the felt if you have not compensated for the transfer....again ime.

Fwiw..it happens with top and bottom as well.I have no worries when I see an OP's ball in the jaws with my ball a foot out of the same hole.Some honest bottom and not to hard and my ball plays behind it everytime.Try it with top on the cue ball and you'll see your OB stay up.Its a easy little drill to prove the fact fwiw.

HTH

 

[ShootingArts]

What really happened . . .

I think you are right but there must be a helluva worldwide conspiracy to perpetuate the "round earth" hoax. I have flown east from New York to Frankfurt, then Beijing, then Los Angeles and finally back to New York. While I was asleep they must have tricked me and turned around.

Go Figure!

Naah, what really happened is that they flew in a big flat circle on ya! Just like people walk in circles when they get lost because one leg is normally slightly shorter than the other, airplanes normally fly in big curves because one wing is normally slightly shorter than the other. You can see this if you look at the path of long flights, they are always curved. We all know that if you continue in a curve long enough you complete a circle. Too, we can all draw a circle on a pool table and we all know that pool tables aren't ball shaped although I can recall some with hills and valleys.

Hu

 

[Hierovision]

I didn't mean to pick on your use of the term since we all use it. What I meant is that none of the cueball's spin is actually, literally, transfered to the object ball.

Just a nitpicky point.

Jim

It certainly is. It's a small percentage but it's there and measurable.

The surface of the CB is spinning at a high rate when it collides. The fact that the CB rotation speed drops immediately after contact is proof of transfer of spin. The surface of the OB will spin in the direction of the surface of the CB at the moment of contact at a speed factoring in amount of friction and the angle of the spin (If the CB spin axis is not vertical less is transferred to the OB due to more resistance from the table surface).

This also adds a slight angle change to the trajectory of the OB which is measurable with the same factors.

Let me put it this way:

If the act of ADDING spin to the CB changes the trajectory (deflection) then when the CB LOSES that spin during contact with the OB the trajectory has to be altered as well (throw).

It's a relatively simple and measurable concept, and the pros do it all the time. The first example I can think of is the SVB vs. Orcollo 10-ball match on www.propoolvideo.com almost every shot they both add english. In some examples with Shane he adds extreme english to a medium speed shot that seems simple. Someone mentioned earlier that it's actually easier to pocket balls with throw, and this is kind of an indicator.

When your cue will probably add english whether you want it to or not, put english on every shot on purpose to avoid unwanted english

 

[seymore15074]

Fwiw..it happens with top and bottom as well.I have no worries when I see an OP's ball in the jaws with my ball a foot out of the same hole.Some honest bottom and not to hard and my ball plays behind it everytime.Try it with top on the cue ball and you'll see your OB stay up.Its a easy little drill to prove the fact fwiw.

There is the proof that spin transfers to the object ball. Shoot a short straight-in combo with draw and watch them both go...

There is no reason why left or right wouldn't transfer the same. You will notice it off of the rails (because that is why english does--it helps you get up and down table).

You do not need to worry about throwing the ball off of line with english; although, you may want to. I do not take any throw into account for pocketing balls, because my mind knows where to hit them...it's automatic. Now, if you're getting your contact point and aiming at that exact spot all of the time, you will need to compensate for throw.

What the hell is this thread still going for?

 

[Jal]

It certainly is.

In the case of a full hit, it's a matter of semantics since we all agree as to the outcome (most of us anyway). Since right-english on the cueball results in left-english on the object ball, the object ball receives none of the cueball's original spin. In fact, both balls get exactly the same dose of left-english, to the extent that they are identical in size and composition.

In general, cut shots included, the object ball does not get its spin by grabbing some of the cueball's. Strictly speaking, there is no "transfer".

It's a small percentage but it's there and measurable.

Actually, for full hits, the object ball often comes away with 5/14'ths or 35.7% of the spin rate of the cueball. This happens whenever the balls end up rolling across each other, which occurs for instance, on stun shots with tip offsets up to about half of maximum english.

The surface of the CB is spinning at a high rate when it collides. The fact that the CB rotation speed drops immediately after contact is proof of transfer of spin. The surface of the OB will spin in the direction of the surface of the CB at the moment of contact at a speed factoring in amount of friction and the angle of the spin (If the CB spin axis is not vertical less is transferred to the OB due to more resistance from the table surface).

As I said, we agree on what's actually going on.

However, it's unlikely the cloth interferes with the process in any significant way, not even if the object ball is being driven directly down by the cueball. If you calculate how far downward it moves during impact, even under rather severe vertical throw conditions, it's only about 1/1000'th of an inch. That's highly unlikely to be enough to build up any significant forces between the ball and the cloth beyond the ball's own weight. The force of friction between the balls, which produces the spin, is much larger than the weight of a ball (often larger than the force you're applying to your cue stick).

Jim

 

[pooltchr]

If the act of ADDING spin to the CB changes the trajectory (deflection)

But it isn't the spin itself that causes the deflection. It is the fact that there are forces being applied in two different directions. There is the directional force of the cue stick that sends the cue ball on it's primary path...but there is also side force from whichever side of vertical center you make contact. It's the "collision" of the tip with the cue ball pushing it slightly to the opposite side that results in squirt. It's the point of impact, not the fact that the cue ball is spinning that pushes it off it's forward path. You are exerting force in two different directions when you strike the cue ball left or right of vertical center.
Steve

 

[Bob Jewett]

... It's the "collision" of the tip with the cue ball pushing it slightly to the opposite side that results in squirt. ...

It is the rotation of the cue ball and the resulting pushing of the tip away from the center of the ball that causes squirt. It's not that there is something like a minor miscue. It's very important to understand this detail (the importance of the cue ball rotating while the tip is stuck to it) to understand how squirt can be reduced.