PSR and allinement advice request.

technoid101

"fades in, fades out"
What PSR and alignment advice would you give to a student whose body shape or other physical limitations prevent them from being able to get their sight line and stroke line in the same horizontal plane? Examples: student #1 is large framed and their body mass gives them a stance with the cue at an acute angle. (Imagine shooting with a beach ball strapped to your side.) Student # 2 has limited flexibility in their back and neck. Incapable of getting “down” on the cue and head alignment is restricted. In this case there is a minimal distance between head and cue the student can achieve. (Think about the beach ball being under your neck). In each case the student’s line of sight and line of stroke will be wide of each other. I “coach”, players who love the game but have mostly quit playing because they just can’t seem to improve due to the inability to obtain a good shot picture using a stance and alignment that is comfortable for them.
I use the word “coach” because I am just a guy who loves the game. I don’t teach. But I do pass along tips and observations now and then to novice players and friends with skills but let old habits sneak in.
Thanks for your help.
 
If I understand the situation correctly, I might suggest standing behind the shot, laying the cue down on the shot line while behind it, and then moving into a shooting stance around the cue stick. Also, I have had some pretty big guys who had a little more success using a snooker stance as opposed to the traditional pool stance.

Just a couple of suggestions off the top of my head.

Steve
 
I think the center-to-edge line is a super powerful preshot routine reference (this is not an aiming suggestion - just using this as an alignment tool).

If you think of the CTEL as an actual plane (think of a sheet of glass coming up from the table), you can use that as a strong reference as to where to align your body - based on the shot.

For example, you can categorize your body alignment based on thick or thin shots. Regardless of what method you use to aim, you can position the core of your body on one side of this plane or the other --- even so much as to "lean" on the plane with certain parts of your body (based on your body type).

For shots thicker than a half-ball hit, you obviously want to position your core on the outside of the CTEL (maybe leaning against it, maybe not-- depends on body type) and for shots thinner than a half-ball hit, you obviously want to position your core to the inside of this plane.

By doing so, you always approach each and every shot in the same manner, with the same process and eliminate the chance of being skewed or malpositioned from the "wrong" side because of a sloppy setup (you're taking 1/2 of the total alignment mistakes out of the equation right out of the gate).

Experiment with using the CTEL as an alignment guide and you'll find your consistency begin to increase. Over time, you can find different ways of positioning your body (parts of your body) either beside or against that plane.

Dave
 
I think the center-to-edge line is a super powerful preshot routine reference (this is not an aiming suggestion - just using this as an alignment tool).

If you think of the CTEL as an actual plane (think of a sheet of glass coming up from the table), you can use that as a strong reference as to where to align your body - based on the shot.

For example, you can categorize your body alignment based on thick or thin shots. Regardless of what method you use to aim, you can position the core of your body on one side of this plane or the other --- even so much as to "lean" on the plane with certain parts of your body (based on your body type).

For shots thicker than a half-ball hit, you obviously want to position your core on the outside of the CTEL (maybe leaning against it, maybe not-- depends on body type) and for shots thinner than a half-ball hit, you obviously want to position your core to the inside of this plane.

By doing so, you always approach each and every shot in the same manner, with the same process and eliminate the chance of being skewed or malpositioned from the "wrong" side because of a sloppy setup (you're taking 1/2 of the total alignment mistakes out of the equation right out of the gate).

Experiment with using the CTEL as an alignment guide and you'll find your consistency begin to increase. Over time, you can find different ways of positioning your body (parts of your body) either beside or against that plane.

Dave

Dave:

This is an EXCELLENT post. For someone using a Lance Perkins classic pool stance, the CTEL is as good a physical reference as any. And, the pool stance allows for any post "going down on the shot" pivoting that needs to happen -- e.g. the sliding of the bridge hand, contortion of the bridge hand, hip pivot, or slight lateral movement of the grip hand to effect the pivot.

But I don't think any stance is more effective at getting and locking someone on the shot line than the snooker stance. Once down on the shot, one is locked-in physically -- the right side of the player's body (e.g. for a right-handed player) is on the shot line, and all (or most) of the body's physical joints from the foot upwards -- i.e. the foot, the ankle, the knee, the hip, the shoulder, the elbow, and the grip hand -- are on and facing into the shot line.

Also, because of this locked-in nature, it's not easy to effect a "pivot" when down on the shot. The grip hand is very close to the hip, and the arm is locked-in close to the body as well, so there's not much clearance for any kind of post-"getting down on the shot" pivoting or adjustment. An air pivot (while still standing) would have to be implemented. Think of it this way -- the decreasing flexibility of getting down into a snooker stance looks like a "V". That is, while standing, you have the utmost flexibility, much like the distance between the top tips of "V". But as you start to descend into the snooker stance, that gap closes until you are locked-in, much like the way the two lines converge down at the bottom of the "V". There is no lateral leeway once you're down on the shot. If you have to make an adjustment, you have to rise-up out of the stance and resituate yourself.

For me, my calculations of the final fire control solution (i.e. the shot line) includes compensation for sidespin/english while still standing. Once I pick out the shot line, I descend down on it, and once done, that's it -- finito. The decision then becomes either "fire," or abort/ascend/resituate. I can't do backhand english adjustments or any pivoting while down on the shot. Technically, I *could* move my grip hand away from my body for any adjustment of the cue tip to the left, but the feeling of that is so unnatural, because the rest of my body is in alignment and now suddenly my arm feels it isn't -- it feels like I'm "side-arming" the shot.

The snooker stance isn't for everybody -- it does require bearing a bit of uncomfortability while muscles stretch for the first time (i.e. the calf and the back of the thigh -- much like when doing that stretching exercise where you stand straight and bend over at the waist to try to touch your head to your knees). But like with that stretching exercise, the more you do it, the muscles stretch and naturally accept that position, and pretty soon it's natural -- no thinking or effort. The beauty is once this stage is reached, you now have a stance that resembles a construction/shipyard derrick (crane), and it positions and locks the body on the shot line. It also teaches you to always view the shot line *while 100% over* the shot line, because once you descend into shooting position, if you've made a mistake in perception of that shot line (i.e. you've viewed it at somewhat of an angle), you now see that you're off line, and can't make adjustments "down there" -- you have to ascend and resituate.

Summary: it might be helpful if the OP investigates the snooker stance. Like Steve Jennings (pooltchr) said, even tall people have been successful in implementing it, and there's no better stance for instilling a sense of "descending accurately down upon the shot line" like the snooker stance.

A good video introduction: http://youtube.com/watch?v=gSK4w_9S_x0

-Sean <-- a little biased, but hey, it's a view from a side of a fence that not many pool players get to see, because they've not tried it before
 
Dave and Sean,

both exellent postings! (in my opinion :p).
How also Dave Segal shown up- this is no recommendation of an aimingsystem. But if a student asks about *sense of a stance* i explain him several stances for explaining him the pro s and contra s.

And what Dave explained, the pro 1 or also the SEE System have really good examples to help someone to align correct to a shot. Here it s not important if we talk about a pendulum stroke or a piston stroke. Just talking about going into a shot, on the correct Sighting/Seeing/Stroking-Line.

This is from my expirience the first step-kind of building the all-in-all stance *around the stroking line*. In my opinion this is the easiest way to explain the important things to a student- you can show him step by step what is important-by letting him DOING the bad moves, the bad allignements-to show him finally how to do it at least right.

A perfect setup to a shot is more than half-of-win to start your pooljourney :-)

lg
Ingo
 
What PSR and alignment advice would you give to a student whose body shape or other physical limitations prevent them from being able to get their sight line and stroke line in the same horizontal plane?

I've seen players of all body types able to align well and believe everyone can. Some just do it a little differently from the majority.
 
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What PSR and alignment advice would you give to a student whose body shape or other physical limitations prevent them from being able to get their sight line and stroke line in the same horizontal plane? Examples: student #1 is large framed and their body mass gives them a stance with the cue at an acute angle. (Imagine shooting with a beach ball strapped to your side.) Student # 2 has limited flexibility in their back and neck. Incapable of getting “down” on the cue and head alignment is restricted. In this case there is a minimal distance between head and cue the student can achieve. (Think about the beach ball being under your neck). In each case the student’s line of sight and line of stroke will be wide of each other. I “coach”, players who love the game but have mostly quit playing because they just can’t seem to improve due to the inability to obtain a good shot picture using a stance and alignment that is comfortable for them.
I use the word “coach” because I am just a guy who loves the game. I don’t teach. But I do pass along tips and observations now and then to novice players and friends with skills but let old habits sneak in.
Thanks for your help.

This is a very challenging question. When faced with players with physical issues that prevent what we would consider an ordinary stance and approach, I like to work backwards ---- first determine what the end result must be and then work from there.

I think the end result must be that they must have their head over their cue when they are shooting --- more specifically, where --- centered, or under some part of their dominant eye. Also, their cue stick must be an end-to-end extension of the line they on which they wish the cb to travel. They can then adjust for sidespin when down on the shot.

I haven't read all the answers in detail, but I like Steve's idea of placing the cue down and finding their stance around it. But not necessarily laying it down completely on the table, but placing it in line with the back hand and then sliding into place around that line.

I think a good catch phrase would be: Bring your body to the cue. (Don't bring the cue to your body.) This will help to avoid getting the body down incorrectly and then pulling the cue in towards the body which mostly results in bad alignment. The body's position can be somewhat flexible around the cue stick, but the cue stick's position can not be flexible.
 
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I haven't read all the answers in detail, but I like Steve's idea of placing the cue down and finding their stance around it. But not necessarily laying it down completely on the table, but placing it in line with the back hand and then sliding into place around that line.

.

That's what I meant, but didn't say. Thanks for clarifying it for me.
Steve
 
No one has mentioned it yet, so I will. Far more poolplayers have difficulty moving the cuestick in a straight line, than not "seeing" the correct line. People aim instictively and intuitively via perception, which is different for every individual. What we find, as instructors, is that when we help students identify, address, and correct stroke errors, their perception of how to aim improves dramatically. There will always be a segment of the pool community that "needs" to find some 'magic' aiming method. All of them work, given an accurate and repeatable stroke. None of them will work consistently with a poor stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
.... There will always be a segment of the pool community that "needs" to find some 'magic' aiming method. .....[/url]

Replace "pool" with any game or sport. Replace "aiming method" with instructional tip, lesson, idea, book, DVD, piece of equipment.

Look at the golf, exercise and diet industries. It's human nature to want the quick "magic" solution. I am totally guilty having bought 5 different books and several DVD's in the last 10 months. Every one of them has improved my game, but no matter what I read, learn or have been taught, it takes time at the table to implement, ingrain and maintain it.

Oh, and out of everything I have read and learned, there is one "magical" thing that gets me back when my game falls down. But I'm not sharing it with anyone. :smile:
 
No one has mentioned it yet, so I will. Far more poolplayers have difficulty moving the cuestick in a straight line, than not "seeing" the correct line. People aim instictively and intuitively via perception, which is different for every individual. What we find, as instructors, is that when we help students identify, address, and correct stroke errors, their perception of how to aim improves dramatically. There will always be a segment of the pool community that "needs" to find some 'magic' aiming method. All of them work, given an accurate and repeatable stroke. None of them will work consistently with a poor stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I'm glad you said this, Scott!

For me, I *have* to be delivering the cue straight, or my game falls apart almost completely. It's weird, but if I'm not delivering the cue straight, I subsequently don't "see" the shot correctly, either. But as soon as I find out what I'm doing wrong in my fundamentals, I'm able to deliver the cue dead straight, and all of a sudden, my crosshairs are now bullseye-accurate.

I know from his past posts that "Neil" and I share this trait -- our style and form absolutely requires a dead-nuts straight cue delivery for us to see the shot and aim correctly. It's the very foundation of playing to our ability.

-Sean
 
No one has mentioned it yet, so I will. Far more poolplayers have difficulty moving the cuestick in a straight line, than not "seeing" the correct line. People aim instictively and intuitively via perception, which is different for every individual. What we find, as instructors, is that when we help students identify, address, and correct stroke errors, their perception of how to aim improves dramatically. There will always be a segment of the pool community that "needs" to find some 'magic' aiming method. All of them work, given an accurate and repeatable stroke. None of them will work consistently with a poor stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Pawned! :thumbup:
 
I'm glad you said this, Scott!

For me, I *have* to be delivering the cue straight, or my game falls apart almost completely. It's weird, but if I'm not delivering the cue straight, I subsequently don't "see" the shot correctly, either. But as soon as I find out what I'm doing wrong in my fundamentals, I'm able to deliver the cue dead straight, and all of a sudden, my crosshairs are now bullseye-accurate.

I know from his past posts that "Neil" and I share this trait -- our style and form absolutely requires a dead-nuts straight cue delivery for us to see the shot and aim correctly. It's the very foundation of playing to our ability.

-Sean

Again: Pawned! :thumbup:
 
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