putting english on the cueball on last stroke

[will8834]

I have seen some players when they are down stroking the cue ball they apply the english on the last stroke. I have always stroked on the cueball where i am going to hit the cueball. But the players I am talking about on the last follow threw stroke apply the english. Anyone else ever notice this. Is it a benefit to apply it this way.

 

[Hal]

Bert Kinister has a tape about this. I think it's #19. The deflection tape.

I have seen some players when they are down stroking the cue ball they apply the english on the last stroke. I have always stroked on the cueball where i am going to hit the cueball. But the players I am talking about on the last follow threw stroke apply the english. Anyone else ever notice this. Is it a benefit to apply it this way.

 

[Flex]

Bert Kinister has a tape about this. I think it's #19. The deflection tape.

And what does he say? Does he talk about back hand english? Is the tape worth the money?

Flex

 

[TheConArtist]

i always see Francisco do this and Danny i have tried it and it works but i am not consistent with it so i just leave it alone, i would rather point and pivot then apply my english and shoot. Isn't that method call Tuck and Roll or something like that?

 

[Gerry]

that's pretty much how I play. I didn't learn that way, but I picked it up from my mentor, and it worked for me. It made it easier because I aim almost every shot with center ball, then stroke the spin. Extreme inside spin shots are aimed a little different.

Gerry

 

[Hal]

Also, If you're not lined up correctly to begin with, it won't work. In other words if you're not aiming with a dead center cue ball, you'll miss. (According to Bert)

 

[Gregg]

Bert Kinister has a tape about this. I think it's #19. The deflection tape.

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.

He advocates shooting like this, where, in contrast, Bob Jewitt who is a regular contributor and outstanding resource for us all here, considers this more difficult than lining up the shot first in this way.

 

[MFelsen]

Hii,

I think it is a kind of personal style and what kind of stroke is perfect for everyone on his own.

Many of the Phillipine Player do it like this .. for example Bustamante, Reyes, Parica ...

I checked it out, too, but as much as i like the Phillipino style, it is not my personal one the risk of having an constantly equal stroke is too high for me. Using an straight lined stroke and aiming system is my personal favorite.

 

[laser2507]

I use Bert Kinisters way for 5 years, but trying to change to aim on practise strokes and not pivoting on the last stroke...

One day this worked for me well, ran a 5 pack out on 9ball. yesterday it didnt work, I couldnt run 4 balls!!!!

Maybe I should stick to pivoting on the last stroke... god this game does my head in!

 

[TheConArtist]

yeah i hear you there, it can mess with your head one day my systems work like they are perfect then the next what am i doing wrong.

 

[SCCues]

I have seen some players when they are down stroking the cue ball they apply the english on the last stroke. I have always stroked on the cueball where i am going to hit the cueball. But the players I am talking about on the last follow threw stroke apply the english. Anyone else ever notice this. Is it a benefit to apply it this way.

I have a good friend that I practice with and he uses this system of applying english on the last stroke and he says that he doesn't have to allow for deflection shooting this way. I've tried it and I can't get the hang of it because I just can't change my stroke on the last stroke to the cue ball, but it definately works for my friend and he plays much better than I do. Maybe I should give it another try, but since I switched to using predator 314 shafts on my cues my game has improved because of the lower deflection of the predator shafts.

SCCues

 

[laser2507]

I use BHE with a Predator 314. People say you shouldnt, but at the Pivot Point of around 11/8 - 12" it "should" work. However when you hear so many people saying use a normal shaft with BHE it does make me wonder if I should go back to my Balabushka shaft.. havent used it for 4 or 5 years.
What do you think?

 

[UWPoolGod1]

That is pretty much the way that I shoot and it always baffles someone who hasn't seen me shoot before. For the most part when I am down doing my pre-shot strokes it looks as if I am going to hit middle ball on every shot. At the shot I hit whatever english I am wanting to shoot. People ask me how I can draw the cueball back table length by hitting middle ball...I just say..."A good stroke"

I think it started for me by just beng a shot making 8ball player on 9 foot tables and I was more consistent with my shooting if I aimed like hitting middle ball and then altered the shot at the end. Works.

 

[jingle]

However when you hear so many people saying use a normal shaft with BHE it does make me wonder if I should go back to my Balabushka shaft.. havent used it for 4 or 5 years.
What do you think?

I have been experimenting for 2 months with going back to a regular shaft (Coker), after using Predators for the last 6-7 years. I like the standard shaft for solid feel/feedback and tight position play, but every once in a while, I'll completely blow an easy shot, mainly due to lack of concentration. (I do think the Predators are more forgiving of a poorly stroked shot for some reason.) I'm getting one of my Coker shafts re-tipped with a Sniper, which is what I use on the Pred., and once I have that I should be able to get a better idea of whether shifting back to standard shafts will be for the best. So far the jury is still out for me.

 

[TheConArtist]

That is pretty much the way that I shoot and it always baffles someone who hasn't seen me shoot before. For the most part when I am down doing my pre-shot strokes it looks as if I am going to hit middle ball on every shot. At the shot I hit whatever english I am wanting to shoot. People ask me how I can draw the cueball back table length by hitting middle ball...I just say..."A good stroke"

I think it started for me by just beng a shot making 8ball player on 9 foot tables and I was more consistent with my shooting if I aimed like hitting middle ball and then altered the shot at the end. Works.

reminds me of someone asking me in leagues when i was breaking i was putting extreme english on the ball but not my last stroke i pivot to center and broke but all he noticed was i was putting english on the ball after a couple times breaking he said are you putting english on the ball when breaking i said uhHUH, .

 

[laser2507]

Conartist,

Can you explain how you aim with your aim outside and pivot inward method.

Do you aim as if you were using english on that side or just plain ball. You must imagine a center ball hit on the cue ball for this to work. as naturally your aim would be off as your mind would be adjusting for the english?

 

[Bob Jewett]

I have seen some players when they are down stroking the cue ball they apply the english on the last stroke. I have always stroked on the cueball where i am going to hit the cueball. But the players I am talking about on the last follow threw stroke apply the english. Anyone else ever notice this. Is it a benefit to apply it this way.

There are at least two such techniques. Both of them tend to compensate for the squirt of the cue stick.

Aim and swoop: Aim as if you were playing with no side spin. That is, your stick must be pointed at the vertical axis of the cue ball, and neither to the right nor the left of center. On your final stroke, some time between the tip starting back and tip-to-ball contact, you move your back hand so that the tip lands on the cue ball to the side of english you want.

Aim and pivot: Aim as if you were playing with no side spin, just as before. When you are satisfied with your aim, and the tip is stopped near the cue ball, move your back hand over so that the tip is placed for as much side spin as you want. Then stroke straight back and come straight forward and through the cue ball, with none of the swooping of the first method. You could also take a few straight warm-up strokes along the offset path.

The first method requires a squirt pivot point near the bridge or some other kind of compensation. The second method allows you to pivot at points other than your bridge with a little added complication.

In my experience very few good players use either of these and the best never have a "no english" phase of aiming for side spin shots. I think adopting either of these will limit how far you can go in the game.

On the other hand, if you are trying to teach a beginner who has unfortunately bought a high-squirt cue how to put side spin on the ball, the second technique might be useful, particularly for cues with a 6-inch squirt pivot point. It is important to point out to such a beginner that such a system of compensation is a crutch, and if they intend to run, it will be hard to do on crutches.

The players who do use either of these "back hand english" techniques tend to understand very little of why the techniques work, and very rarely understand the limitations of the methods. Some of them mistakenly think that they can get more spin on the ball by swooping. They need to watch Semih Sayginer.

 

[TheConArtist]

Conartist,

Can you explain how you aim with your aim outside and pivot inward method.

Do you aim as if you were using english on that side or just plain ball. You must imagine a center ball hit on the cue ball for this to work. as naturally your aim would be off as your mind would be adjusting for the english?

Bob Jewett in his post explained and covered i think all of it, as to the aim and pivot method is what i was doing when breaking, i seen Francisco doing this when he won his first title against Earl i think it was the 1993 PBA pro tour tournament only i am applying english to the ball during practice strokes the i pivot to center ball then stroke maybe once or twice then break i didnt' do what he was doing by pivoting on his last stroke as what the thread is about just vice versa.

 

[TheConArtist]

There are at least two such techniques. Both of them tend to compensate for the squirt of the cue stick.

Aim and swoop: Aim as if you were playing with no side spin. That is, your stick must be pointed at the vertical axis of the cue ball, and neither to the right nor the left of center. On your final stroke, some time between the tip starting back and tip-to-ball contact, you move your back hand so that the tip lands on the cue ball to the side of english you want.

Aim and pivot: Aim as if you were playing with no side spin, just as before. When you are satisfied with your aim, and the tip is stopped near the cue ball, move your back hand over so that the tip is placed for as much side spin as you want. Then stroke straight back and come straight forward and through the cue ball, with none of the swooping of the first method. You could also take a few straight warm-up strokes along the offset path.

The first method requires a squirt pivot point near the bridge or some other kind of compensation. The second method allows you to pivot at points other than your bridge with a little added complication.

In my experience very few good players use either of these and the best never have a "no english" phase of aiming for side spin shots. I think adopting either of these will limit how far you can go in the game.

On the other hand, if you are trying to teach a beginner who has unfortunately bought a high-squirt cue how to put side spin on the ball, the second technique might be useful, particularly for cues with a 6-inch squirt pivot point. It is important to point out to such a beginner that such a system of compensation is a crutch, and if they intend to run, it will be hard to do on crutches.

The players who do use either of these "back hand english" techniques tend to understand very little of why the techniques work, and very rarely understand the limitations of the methods. Some of them mistakenly think that they can get more spin on the ball by swooping. They need to watch Semih Sayginer.

i asked about this guy in my early threads and i happen to find his clip on youtube, but yes if you haven't seen this guy you must amazing.

 

[Gerry]

So are you guys saying some people aim center ball, then move their entire bridge hand to apply spin?....man, that would freak me out.!

Bob, it sounds like you don't like my method, or the one I was taught, but the 2 players that taught me both used it, and one was a hundred ball runner/regional short stop while the other was a 200 ball runner and a world beater. I'm not arguing with you, just stating the fact that it was the way that got me to a much higher level. Not to say that if I learned from a different style teacher I wouldn't play better....but hind sight is a *****!

Gerry