Qualifying Entry Fees?

S

Snap9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, I know there have been a few threads as to the higher $1500 entry.

My question is to what reasons have IPT justified this increase? I just don't see the high dollar entry with no monetary return. The only return you will ever see is by winning the qualifier and then spending more money traveling to the next stop(Reno.)

So far all I see is that KT is in a win-win situation. One hundred qualifying events with an average of 32 entrants at $1500. You do the math. The qualifiers are paying for the big tournaments. Does not look to me like the sponsorship is flipping the bill. KT is a business man and do you all really think he is doing this for the love of the sport. I don't believe so. He is getting kick backs from TV, the venues, billiard manufacturers(table-cloth), and his self promotion of his other products.

I guess in a nut shell I would like justification from IPT as to why it seems that the qualification entrants are paying the 150 predetermined players meal tickets, the cost of the tournament, and all the payouts.
 
If you turn up without winning a match in the World Open you're guaranteed $5000. In the NA open, which was $1000 entry fee, compared to the $1500 fee of the WO open, players were guaranteed $2000. So thats' $5000 guaranteed to $2000, hence why the fee is higher for the World Open.

However, the site listed $1000 enrty fee for the WO not long ago, and so they have gone back on their word, which i don't agree with, they should of said $1500 fee in the 1st place, and we wouldn't have any problems, but either way, if you know you're good enough, you'll pay the price.
 
Businesses change their pricing on their products all the time. This is no different.

The only real difference between this situation and, say, your corner gas station changing the price of mid-grade from $2.95 a gallon to $3.00 a gallon, is that people are *emotionally invested* in pool and the IPT, and hence, tend to get more worked up when things change. *shrug*

$1500 is a lot of green to lose just for a *chance* to do well in one tournament so you can go try and do well in *another* tournament. Heck, $1000 is a lot in my book. It definitely should bring out people's best games if they're investing that kind of cash.
 
justification???

Not sure if I stated it correctly or not.

The "HOPEFULS"----The "QUALIFIER ENTRANTS" are the ones flipping the bill for the big tournaments without even getting to participate in the big show. Unless ofcourse if you place 1st or 2nd in one of the qualifiers.


Geez what a scam.....except for the few already getting a check from KT.

Wonder where the IPT will get there next cash flow from after the people doing the qualifying tournaments decide to stop QUALIFYING.
 
Snap9 said:
Not sure if I stated it correctly or not.

The "HOPEFULS"----The "QUALIFIER ENTRANTS" are the ones flipping the bill for the big tournaments without even getting to participate in the big show. Unless ofcourse if you place 1st or 2nd in one of the qualifiers.


Geez what a scam.....except for the few already getting a check from KT.

Wonder where the IPT will get there next cash flow from after the people doing the qualifying tournaments decide to stop QUALIFYING.
Click to expand...

Yah, that's been discussed at length in this forum in the past. Some simple math has been done as well, showing that the qualifier fees still don't add up to what the event itself costs, in payouts, and general estimates on expenses etc. (at least, based on what info people have to work with.)

They still have to be drawing money from other sources (KT's wallet, apparently) to cover event costs, even after qualifier fees are taken into account.
 
Snap9 said:
Not sure if I stated it correctly or not.

The "HOPEFULS"----The "QUALIFIER ENTRANTS" are the ones flipping the bill for the big tournaments without even getting to participate in the big show. Unless ofcourse if you place 1st or 2nd in one of the qualifiers.


Geez what a scam.....except for the few already getting a check from KT.

Wonder where the IPT will get there next cash flow from after the people doing the qualifying tournaments decide to stop QUALIFYING.
Click to expand...

The source of qualifiers may dry up anyway after next year when 150 of the best players in the world will already be in the IPT. How many people will want to battle their bottom 50 players for a 2008 tour card? Probably only some fringe players that were straddling the line.

One of the reasons people are entering qualifiers for 2006 is that they KNOW they can beat many of the players currently on the IPT. ;)
 
Linda has hit the nail on the head. I've been saying the same thing.


I've even speculated that the IPT (KT and Sigel) did not necessarily use a first-come-first-serve or "how professionally the application was done" basis for selecting the IPT 150. That's pure bull$hit.


I think they intentionally chose shortstops from all over the globe because that creates a market where one didn't exist before. If they really wanted, they could have chose the 150 best of the best, and then qualifying would be a totally different game. It would be easier to qualify, but then having a chance to get on the tour would be almost nil.


In order to create a demand for qualifiers (which bring in money, at least in the early stages of the IPT as it gets on its feet before being fully profitable) they set it up this way.


There are so many players saying to themselves "omg, I know that guy - I've played him and he sucks! Yet he's on the tour making all that money"...and surely enough, they are slugging it out in qualifiers because they know they can replace that person.

Pretty genius on their part. I don't believe for a second that they believed they picked the 150 best from the start. They carefully selected people from different regions, different makeup...some that have ties to amateur pool...it is very diverse. This guarantees that the better players are guaranteed to know at least one of them and how they play.


According to my estimates, the qualifier money raised for the North American Open was (give or take $5,000) around $300,000. The tourcard qualifier probably brought in a lot too being $2,000 entry. No, I don't think this is KT's true method for making the IPT profitable (debated in another thread), I think TV and ADs is the goal...but making a million dollars this year in qualifiers is not out of the realm of possibilities, and will certainly help out the IPT in its first struggling year as a business after they've dished out millions in prize money and millions in production and events.


Two things can happen if the IPT is around for 2008. 1] qualifications die down because after 2 seasons, the IPT will be highly competitive and the chances for semi-pros getting in are very slim and not worth the time/money 2] the IPT grows in both popularity and prize money to where it motivates thousands of players globally who could put in a few years of hard work on their game and take a shot at the tour. Only a very impressive and large IPT would generate that type of motivation for players to compete against the 150 best. You can bet that the difficulty for qualifying would be high, so that future players who take a shot at the tour will be sponsored by others.


It is also possible that as the 150 IPT players become the true 150 best, qualification fees might lower significantly. The value of a successful qualification won't be that high anymore. It would be no more than a shot at one particular tournament (which isn't bad), but today, a qualification is a potential shot at over $100,000. In 2008, it will not be for that purpose.


Now, the huge tour card qualifier at the end of the year will be complete and total mayhem! Very exciting. The 50 card holders who are part of the 150 best in 2008 will be huge favorites to regain their cards - but there's no guarantee. This is the best opportunity for someone not in the IPT to have a good run in that tournament and win a card. Would be a tough tournament, but no tougher than playing in an Open event due to the absence of the 100 best. A card holder who has a bad tournament will find themselves out for at least 1 season. It will be devistating to go from a minimum of $100,000 in earnings/prize money to a big fat $0.00 ...


Imagine at the end of this season how the person who falls 101st is going to feel?
 
Bola Ocho said:
Linda has hit the nail on the head. I've been saying the same thing.


I've even speculated that the IPT (KT and Sigel) did not necessarily use a first-come-first-serve or "how professionally the application was done" basis for selecting the IPT 150. That's pure bull$hit.


I think they intentionally chose shortstops from all over the globe because that creates a market where one didn't exist before. If they really wanted, they could have chose the 150 best of the best, and then qualifying would be a totally different game. It would be easier to qualify, but then having a chance to get on the tour would be almost nil.


In order to create a demand for qualifiers (which bring in money, at least in the early stages of the IPT as it gets on its feet before being fully profitable) they set it up this way.


There are so many players saying to themselves "omg, I know that guy - I've played him and he sucks! Yet he's on the tour making all that money"...and surely enough, they are slugging it out in qualifiers because they know they can replace that person.

Pretty genius on their part. I don't believe for a second that they believed they picked the 150 best from the start. They carefully selected people from different regions, different makeup...some that have ties to amateur pool...it is very diverse. This guarantees that the better players are guaranteed to know at least one of them and how they play.


According to my estimates, the qualifier money raised for the North American Open was (give or take $5,000) around $300,000. The tourcard qualifier probably brought in a lot too being $2,000 entry. No, I don't think this is KT's true method for making the IPT profitable (debated in another thread), I think TV and ADs is the goal...but making a million dollars this year in qualifiers is not out of the realm of possibilities, and will certainly help out the IPT in its first struggling year as a business after they've dished out millions in prize money and millions in production and events.


Two things can happen if the IPT is around for 2008. 1] qualifications die down because after 2 seasons, the IPT will be highly competitive and the chances for semi-pros getting in are very slim and not worth the time/money 2] the IPT grows in both popularity and prize money to where it motivates thousands of players globally who could put in a few years of hard work on their game and take a shot at the tour. Only a very impressive and large IPT would generate that type of motivation for players to compete against the 150 best. You can bet that the difficulty for qualifying would be high, so that future players who take a shot at the tour will be sponsored by others.


It is also possible that as the 150 IPT players become the true 150 best, qualification fees might lower significantly. The value of a successful qualification won't be that high anymore. It would be no more than a shot at one particular tournament (which isn't bad), but today, a qualification is a potential shot at over $100,000. In 2008, it will not be for that purpose.


Now, the huge tour card qualifier at the end of the year will be complete and total mayhem! Very exciting. The 50 card holders who are part of the 150 best in 2008 will be huge favorites to regain their cards - but there's no guarantee. This is the best opportunity for someone not in the IPT to have a good run in that tournament and win a card. Would be a tough tournament, but no tougher than playing in an Open event due to the absence of the 100 best. A card holder who has a bad tournament will find themselves out for at least 1 season. It will be devistating to go from a minimum of $100,000 in earnings/prize money to a big fat $0.00 ...


Imagine at the end of this season how the person who falls 101st is going to feel?
Click to expand...

You have way too much time on your hands.

Wayne
 
rackmsuckr said:
The source of qualifiers may dry up anyway after next year when 150 of the best players in the world will already be in the IPT. How many people will want to battle their bottom 50 players for a 2008 tour card? Probably only some fringe players that were straddling the line.
Click to expand...

In a sense, wouldn't the opposite be true? If the 150 card holders at the time were the best of the best - wouldn't that mean that, to the guy who wants to enter a qualifier for one of the 50 open spots in an event, the *rest* of the folks trying to qualify are more on his level?

Think of it this way - how many folks went through (or are going to go through) the qualifier process for the NA/World events that, had they applied for a tour spot last year, *would* have gotten it? Those folks are the favorites to win the qualifiers they play in.

Next year, when these folks likely have their tour cards (due to doing well enough in the NA/World events, winnings-wise), they *won't* be participating in qualifiers... which means the average skill level of the players in those qualifiers drops a notch, making everyone else's chances a little better.
 
rackmsuckr said:
The source of qualifiers may dry up anyway after next year when 150 of the best players in the world will already be in the IPT. How many people will want to battle their bottom 50 players for a 2008 tour card? Probably only some fringe players that were straddling the line.

One of the reasons people are entering qualifiers for 2006 is that they KNOW they can beat many of the players currently on the IPT. ;)
Click to expand...

The qualifiers will never "dry up" IF the payouts remain the same or better.

There are going to be new talents who think that they belong on the tour. Also, the "has been" players will give it another shot. Furthermore, there are going to be other players around the world who think that they are good enough to beat some of the IPT members.

John
 
That's what the IPT is banking on.

I am skeptical. It becomes difficult for anyone, even pretty good semi-pros to keep taking shots at a tour that consists of the true 150 best players. How long can you try? How many thousands can you spend?

The risk will be too great because the reward will be too unlikely.

Only youth and new talent will pose legitimate chances at tour qualification. Eventually, the current crop is going to run out of people willing to try.

I could be wrong. Maybe the field is competitive enough to where there are enough outsiders that can oust IPT card holders? Still, the IPT will be too protective (11 tournaments, with 9 being opens and 2 being players) in 2007. The only chance then will be the end of the year tour card qualifier, which will not only be qualfiers outside the tour, but 50 of the best 150 who lose their cards.

You can't expect many players to qualify for each of the 9 opens and to keep their prize money competitive. I'd be surprised.
 
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