Quality of American Pool

[hang-the-9]

A little bit of this is true for sure.

I think this is 70% the reason, when you'd see the 70s and even 80s and early 90s international matches it was like watching a college team play a good pro team in basketball or football.

There were maybe 2-3-4 europeans and asians that could play with the top 20 US players. Now there are 2-3-4 US players that can play with the top 20 Euro and Asian players.

Not talking about the Philipines but Japan, China, Taiwan.

 

[hang-the-9]

What, they will be ready to go by the time they are 30?

It is a laugh to hear about these "young" up and coming pool players who will be the next torch bearers for American pool and realize how old they really are. In the meantime the top talent from other areas in the world are winning world championships at 16 years old and a 18 year old kid from Taiwan came to America and made the finals in both CSI invitational events and beat SVB in the finals of the 8-ball and only lost to his older brother in the finals of the other.

America does not have any kid that is looking anywhere close to matching the powerhouse youths coming up from other areas of the world, none are even close.

Total truth there.

I know a few of the kids from the US that went to the junior world tournament a few weeks ago in China. Was talking to one of the parents and he said when his daughter played, her Asian opponent broke and ran 2 racks and then ran out two dry breaks from the other player. This is in the 17 and under category.

Actually the age groups for junior worlds need to be lowered. In US Nationals it's 14 and under and 15-18, the Worlds I think is either lumpled into all one age group or 17 and under and 19 and under. 17 vs a 12 or 13 yr old, even a good one, is not very fair.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I've been away from pool along time,but with all due respect the quality is not what I remember seeing in the 70's & 80's. Hopefully it will get better. Any thoughts on this?

Comparing 2014 with the 1979. or 1980 is unfair.

As Pool has more competition for your extra income today than back then.

COMPETITION come from things that wee not around in the 70's & 80's.

Computer Games

Internet Forums

X-Box

Cable TV

Satellite TV

and the list goes on and on, and America is in a big recession, and people have less excess income to spend.

JMHO.

 

[the Professor]

I've been away from pool along time,but with all due respect the quality is not what I remember seeing in the 70's & 80's. Hopefully it will get better. Any thoughts on this?

If your comments are in response to our recent MC showing… my thoughts are simple…

Ask anybody from Europe if they want to play Justin Hall an all around…one pocket, Banks, 10 ball…. for 20,000….. See how many takers you get.

Then ask them all if they want to play Shane a race to 100 10 ball for 20,000…. See how long the line is….

Then ask if they all 5 want to play John Schmidt 14.1 a race to 1000 for 20,000…..

The point is… the quality of our game is not bad just because of our VERY poor showing at the MC… Our players are not made for that format… We are pretty strong in other formats.

 

[FranCrimi]

Don't forget that the '70's and '80's were loaded with drug-takers. If that's what made some of those players great, then as far as I'm concerned, they were a bunch of cheaters.

I was an eye-witness to plenty of it. How many of them do you think used chemical courage? How would they have done without their chemicals? Ever wonder about that?

I do.

Those are the people we look back on as heroes.

 

[ineedaspot]

The whole level of the game is higher now. It happens in all, or at least most sports. Young guns learn from the greats and take the game to a higher level.

It's not that the level of US pool has dropped, it's that the rest of the world has gotten better. Shane right now would beat the guys from the 70s and 80s in their prime. This is not a knock on Buddy and Sigel, they were great champions, but guys like Shane get to grow up watching them play. If Buddy was born in 1990, he would have become a better player than he was because he would have started at a place where pool was already ahead.

One big reason that the US is falling behind is that we're still stuck in the gambling/hustling mentality. That worked until about the 2000s. But a better way to achieve excellence is by starting young, practicing, instruction, and organized competition.

 

[Island Drive]

doesn't offer instant gratification

The game will never turn around at least not in the United States. It simply doesn't offer instant gratification like video games. There is no reason to go into pool as a career. The best in the world make peanuts. Why waste time and talent.

Core societal problem from my perch....is my title of this thread.

I've often felt the current generation that thinks everything is just a click away has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go in life before they understand life for the long haul. It's like saying a bootie call is better than a loving, caring, maturing, nurturing relationship between a man and a woman.
''The game will never turn around STATEMENT''... the knowledge you have about ''click'' away gratification............ sounds like your on the wrong website forum.''

 

[dardusm]

It's a tough game/sport that demands a lot of time in order to be good. The reward is a sporadic financial existence. The players in Asia and Europe have better financial incentives. Government support, tournaments, organizational support, etc. If pool was like golf, tennis, MLB, NFL, and so on, with those financial incentives then many of the best athletes would turn their attention to the game. The level of play would increase. Ask yourself this question, would you like to see your daughter or son play this game or a different sport such as baseball, football, soccer, or golf? That's the problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Island Drive]

Chemical Warfare

Don't forget that the '70's and '80's were loaded with drug-takers. If that's what made some of those players great, then as far as I'm concerned, they were a bunch of cheaters.

I was an eye-witness to plenty of it. How many of them do you think used chemical courage? How would they have done without their chemicals? Ever wonder about that?

I do.

Those are the people we look back on as heroes.???????????????

Bingo.................musicians were also in the same loop.

Now that he's passed on I'll say this, and it's got nothing to do with an attach or in any way to diminish him as a person, it's just the way it was, like Fran said. Hell it goes on in ALL sports.

To me,
Medina was a great example of this and he was not Always Up, but I can't say 100%. I played him once in the finals about 20 years ago McChesney Event in Denver, and I'm lining up a long cut shot and Danny is in line with the shot leaning against another GC and he's next to John. Danny and I were good friends, anywho I said in a very amusing tone of voice, and the crowd Roared with laughter....''Can you please sit down while I shoot'' his response.........

I CAN'T........................:happydance:Boy did McChesney and crowd have fun with that. For years Dino would challenge ANY player large sets if they would play him on home court, they never came to play him on the triple shimmed gold crown II @ Table Steaks why, they Knew what was going on. I've been beat many times once the pills started popping, but I learned how to avoid that, but I always worked/played in life. I've lost allot of old school player friendships either from alcohol or the white powder of some sort.
"that's how I see it.''

Here's Dino and me shortly before his passing, and I also visited him at home the following week and he passed a few days after that. Danny was younger than I.

 

[SakuJack]

Then ask if they all 5 want to play John Schmidt 14.1 a race to 1000 for 20,000…..

Careful there, Europe has its share of world straight pool champions.

Aside from that, your post is kind of symbolic of why American pool is struggling so much. Stop throwing out bets that will never happen and look at the issues that need addressing, and you might get somewhere.

 

[krupa]

Core societal problem from my perch....is my title of this thread.

I've often felt the current generation that thinks everything is just a click away has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go in life before they understand life for the long haul. It's like saying a bootie call is better than a loving, caring, maturing, nurturing relationship between a man and a woman.
''The game will never turn around STATEMENT''... the knowledge you have about ''click'' away gratification............ sounds like your on the wrong website forum.''

I totally agree with this.

How do you explain to a kid the difference between achieving something in a video game with achieving something for real like running a rack of 9-ball?

I was talking to a co-worker about playing pool. He grew up with a table and likes to talk to me about it. The other day he was talking about how hard it is to get his grandkids up and out of the house and actually doing something. They spend all their time on the computer or in front of the TV. Well, the kids aren't buying themselves TVs and computers, right? Kids only know what we tell them/expose them to. If parents are giving the kids tablets and computers, and sitting them down in front of the TV instead of kicking them out of the house to play, how are they going to ever understand what it means to really do things?

 

[BRussell]

If your comments are in response to our recent MC showing… my thoughts are simple…

Ask anybody from Europe if they want to play Justin Hall an all around…one pocket, Banks, 10 ball…. for 20,000….. See how many takers you get.

Then ask them all if they want to play Shane a race to 100 10 ball for 20,000…. See how long the line is….

Then ask if they all 5 want to play John Schmidt 14.1 a race to 1000 for 20,000…..

The point is… the quality of our game is not bad just because of our VERY poor showing at the MC… Our players are not made for that format… We are pretty strong in other formats.

I like a lot of your posts, so I don't mean to slam you (just your idea here :wink: ).

This drives me crazy. The barking bravado mentality is not a strength, it's part of what is holding US pool back. We associate pool excellence too much with the swaggering ability to intimidate others with large bets, rather than with starting young and training for strong fundamentals.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood after this crushing defeat, but I think this is the problem with our country in general, not just in pool. There's too much "USA #1" and not enough keeping our nose to the grindstone and humbly trying to build a better future.

 

[Island Drive]

Woofing mentality

I like a lot of your posts, so I don't mean to slam you (just your idea here :wink: ).

This drives me crazy. The barking bravado mentality is not a strength, it's part of what is holding US pool back. We associate pool excellence too much with the swaggering ability to intimidate others with large bets, rather than with starting young and training for strong fundamentals.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood after this crushing defeat, but I think this is the problem with our country in general, not just in pool. There's too much "USA #1" and not enough keeping our nose to the grindstone and humbly trying to build a better future.

Nice post...........spot on perspective of the current and past mindsets.