Question about APA

cubswin said:
I got talked into being on a team starting this week. Just as a way to get to play a little more.

I can hear the *****ing now about me starting out as a 4, doubt the league operator lets it happen actually.
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its a fact that that stuff is gonna happen when a new player " that is not new to pool " joins apa. halfway through my 1st match in apa playing 9 ball vs a 7 the opposing team captain was on the phone to the lo complaining about my handicap. i could not help but hear her heated conversation as i was winning the match pretty handily as a 3 . needless to say i was a 4 the next match.

our area started all males as a 4 in 8 ball and a 3 in 9 ball. females started as a 3/2 now its 4/4 for males and 3/3 for females.

2 years later this same captain had a new player join her team. i knew him quite well from money league and told her that night before he played that he was not a 4 and should be at least a 6 if not a 7. she replied she did not know how he played . i said ...well i am not gonna call the lo half way through the match complaining about him like you did me. next week he was a 7 and i went up and said....i told you so.:D
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
From what I have seen a lot of people that play APA don't have the time and/or dedication to devote to the game. They come out, relax, hang with friends, and play pool. The 23 limit makes sure teams are not all strong players. Handicaps allow them to compete and win against most people.

They win patches, trophies, pins, trips, and seem to really enjoy that. I have never played in APA but, the people I know who do really seem to enjoy the format and these "prizes"
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Agree with all except the 23 rule from my time In the Apa destroys teams and can hold back players. Especially in 9 ball. Part of leagues is hanging out with friends but eventually there going to get better and the team will have to split up or they will have to sand bag. The 23 rule is a double edged sword
 
You don't have to come in as a 4 if your a known player. My captain who has been playing Apa for 20 years lol told them when they brought me into the league to make me a 7 because hes positive I'll at least be an 8 if not a 9. I was an 8 in l think 4 matches and a 9 by the beginning of the next session. I was told to sand bag laying down isn't my thing. Lol


lorider said:
its a fact that that stuff is gonna happen when a new player " that is not new to pool " joins apa. halfway through my 1st match in apa playing 9 ball vs a 7 the opposing team captain was on the phone to the lo complaining about my handicap. i could not help but hear her heated conversation as i was winning the match pretty handily as a 3 . needless to say i was a 4 the next match.

our area started all males as a 4 in 8 ball and a 3 in 9 ball. females started as a 3/2 now its 4/4 for males and 3/3 for females.

2 years later this same captain had a new player join her team. i knew him quite well from money league and told her that night before he played that he was not a 4 and should be at least a 6 if not a 7. she replied she did not know how he played . i said ...well i am not gonna call the lo half way through the match complaining about him like you did me. next week he was a 7 and i went up and said....i told you so.:D
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APA 8-ball is marketed towards beginners and intermediates. The APA also offers other league products such as 9-ball, and Masters division.

It's up to the individual league operators to implement these other products. If there is frustration for not offering anything more than 8-ball, it should be directed to the local league operator.

trob said:
Agree with all except the 23 rule from my time In the Apa destroys teams and can hold back players. Especially in 9 ball. Part of leagues is hanging out with friends but eventually there going to get better and the team will have to split up or they will have to sand bag. The 23 rule is a double edged sword
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couldnthinkof01 said:
Ya they do the 23 thing to force you to make new teams I think.
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The 23 thing is to keep balance, and not have teams stacked with several strong players. If you are a beginner, why would you be interested in getting your head bashed in every week, cuz the teams you face have many more stronger players than you?

The handicap alone isn't going to balance that. The better players will win the majority of the time when facing far less skilled players.

The league is supposed to be attracting the casual player to play. Too many experienced players seem to forget that.
 
Any video game designer will tell you the way to get people hooked is frequent, randomly spaced, small rewards. More people willing to play pool with me is a good thing in my opinion. Who cares how or where they got the hunger?

Thank you kindly.
 
justadub said:
The handicap alone isn't going to balance that. The better players will win the majority of the time when facing far less skilled players.
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Actually it should. In fact, if you assume that lower ratings have a higher percentage of beginners (who should be improving faster), low rated player should win more often in a properly handicapped system.

Thank you kindly.
 
Corwyn_8 said:
Actually it should. In fact, if you assume that lower ratings have a higher percentage of beginners (who should be improving faster), low rated player should win more often in a properly handicapped system.

Thank you kindly.
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In theory, you would be correct.

In practice, and regarding APA specifically, the handicap isn't 100% accurate. And I don't know that it ever could be. In my part of the world, it's pretty accurate, no one way out of whack, at most one Skill Level too high or too low.

Better players play better. That was whicked deep, huh? :p Meaning more often than not, they'll over come the handicap and find a way to win. Not always, but more than 50%, in my limited local experience.

Facing a team full of players far better than a beginner would get very discouraging, very quickly.
 
ctyhntr said:
APA 8-ball is marketed towards beginners and intermediates. The APA also offers other league products such as 9-ball, and Masters division.

It's up to the individual league operators to implement these other products. If there is frustration for not offering anything more than 8-ball, it should be directed to the local league operator.
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We have 9 ball ( that's what I play ) that's what I'm talking about. No league is perfect and one of the silly things with the Apa 23 rule is in 8 ball the highest you can be is a 7 but in 9 ball you can have a 9. So shouldnt the 23 rule be a little higher for 9 ball lol

They have tried to start a masters division but can't get enough interest.
 
justadub said:
The 23 thing is to keep balance, and not have teams stacked with several strong players. If you are a beginner, why would you be interested in getting your head bashed in every week, cuz the teams you face have many more stronger players than you?

The handicap alone isn't going to balance that. The better players will win the majority of the time when facing far less skilled players.

The league is supposed to be attracting the casual player to play. Too many experienced players seem to forget that.
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But it's also a good business decision. Forces you to go out and do there job for them... Recruit! Lol
 
Corwyn_8 said:
Actually it should. In fact, if you assume that lower ratings have a higher percentage of beginners (who should be improving faster), low rated player should win more often in a properly handicapped system.

Thank you kindly.
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Our BCA league is a 100% handicap league based on averages. No matter how many points I may be spotted it does no good when I do not get to the table.
 
fastone371 said:
Our BCA league is a 100% handicap league based on averages. No matter how many points I may be spotted it does no good when I do not get to the table.
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i have played bcapl and quite honestly enjoyed my time in that league.....but this statement right here is why i much prefer apa.

the round robin format means you play each opponent on the other team one rack. it also means you either break 3 times or 2 times depending on your captains scheduling.

the open break rule allows for easier break and runs than the closed break rule in apa. if you only break twice it is quite possible you can lose 3 matches with out ever getting a shot. and you don't have another shot at those opponents until your team faces them again.

with the closed break and race to your handicap level you are going to get your turns at the table ....unless your opponent wins the lag and puts a 5 pack on you. and according to all the apa bashers that will never happen in a league of beer guzzlers and bangers. :wink:
 
Man people complain alot. All handicap systems and formats are not perfect. Play masters with no handicap, open tournaments, gamble, just have fun (it is what it is), or take up lawn darts or something
 
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couldnthinkof01 said:
Man people complain alot. All handicap systems and formats are not perfect. Play masters with no handcap, open tournaments, gamble, just have fun (it is what it is), or take up lawn darts or something
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dont'cha know it is human nature to blame every one and every thing but yourself when you lose. :D

truthfully....that ... i lost to a sandbagger does get tiring. :grin:
 
justadub said:
Better players play better. That was whicked deep, huh? :p Meaning more often than not, they'll over come the handicap and find a way to win. Not always, but more than 50%, in my limited local experience.
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If better players are winning more than 50% of the time, the handicapping is broken. If better players overcome their handicap, then it isn't enough of one. wicked deep huh?

Thank you kindly.
 
Corwyn_8 said:
If better players are winning more than 50% of the time, the handicapping is broken. If better players overcome their handicap, then it isn't enough of one. wicked deep huh?

Thank you kindly.
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Since there is a skill cap, many of the matches are close enough to make that small percentage nearly negligible, imo. Then there is also the "better" in terms of relative to their levels. Does a weak 4 win more than 50% against a strong 3? That's where the handicaps start to round out the numbers, ayuh.
 
The 3-6 handicaps work pretty well in my short experience. 2 and 7 have wider ranges of skill levels so it's no surprise they are less predictive.
 
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