Question about APA

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If better players are winning more than 50% of the time, the handicapping is broken. If better players overcome their handicap, then it isn't enough of one. wicked deep huh?

Thank you kindly.

after reading yours and banks posts i looked up my stats.

i have 980 matches and have a 51.67% lifetime record. i have had highs of 70% sessions and lows of 35% sessions. i have beat 9's and lost to 1's.

with almost 1,000 matches and close to a 50 % record i would say the handicap system works...at least in my area any ways.

when i lose a match i am favored to win i chalk it up to ...shit happens....i don't go whining that i lost to a sand bagger like most people on here that bash apa do.

some of you guys remind me of a team captain we played in tri cups last session. after i beat his 6 by 4-0 in 8 ball tri cups he called me a sand bagger and went complaining to the lo.

2 weeks later we faced that same team in the 9 ball tri cup finals. i am a 5 and faced his daughter in law who is a 2. i lost 18-2.

now let me tell you ...i don't like to lose...especially to players that are lower handicapped. i could have went all beligerent on their ass like their captain did 2 weeks prior and called her a sand bagger and went crying to the lo.

instead i took the high road and congratulated her on shooting well and wished their team luck in the ltc's.

people like their captain gives leagues in general and pool in particular a black eye.

as the saying goes...there is always one bad apple in the barrel and it ruins it for the whole bunch.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Man people complain alot. All handicap systems and formats are not perfect. Play masters with no handicap, open tournaments, gamble, just have fun (it is what it is), or take up lawn darts or something

exactly ..no system is perfect. No system will stop all sand baggers or make every match even.. I just go to leagues. Play who my captain tells me to and enjoy it.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
If better players are winning more than 50% of the time, the handicapping is broken. If better players overcome their handicap, then it isn't enough of one. wicked deep huh?

Thank you kindly.

As I said in the post that you quoted, the handicap system isn't perfect, and it never can be. The scope of the league is too large, humans are the scorekeepers, and humans are playing. Humans who are lower level players who won't play consistently from week to week.

The system works well enough. Again, as I said earlier, other than the blatant cheaters (which is likely exaggerated here online) most folks are handicapped pretty closely, at least in my experience. We have no one playing that is off by more than one skill level in either direction, and that number is fairly low, the handicap system will catch up at some point.

Yes, better players will win more often than they lose. Not by a huge margin, but more often than not. That's because they are better players....and there is no shame in that. The APA handicap system gets it close enough so that both players can win if they play well enough. And that's good enough.
 

snowmon34

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
APA is good for pool..
I cant think of another pool organization in the USA that does a better job of recruiting new players to the game..
 

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll apologize in advance if this comes off as a troll,

Why would you apologize for doing something in advance and then knowing you are doing exactly what you were apologizing for but continue to do it anyway? Saying sorry before you do something wrong does not lessen the wrong so your trolling is no less of a trolling message without the insincere apology at the beginning.

No trophy is earned without the team/individual earning it.
No patch is awarded without the team/individual earning it.
Break an Runs are not common, thus it is a great accomplishment for some.
8 on the break is not a common occurrence so it is a great accomplishment for some.
Going Rackless is not common so it is a great accomplishment for some.
Getting a Clean Sweep is extremely hard as a team and a great accomplishment for all.

I personally feel they should give out a different patch for the 1st, 5th, 10th, 25th, 50th and 100th time you accomplish those things instead of the same patch for every time. But it is also my understanding you can turn in your patches when you have 25 to get a special one, but I don't know anyone that has. I guess I will check with them the next time I see them.
 

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why would you apologize for doing something in advance and then knowing you are doing exactly what you were apologizing for but continue to do it anyway? Saying sorry before you do something wrong does not lessen the wrong so your trolling is no less of a trolling message without the insincere apology at the beginning.

No trophy is earned without the team/individual earning it.
No patch is awarded without the team/individual earning it.
Break an Runs are not common, thus it is a great accomplishment for some.
8 on the break is not a common occurrence so it is a great accomplishment for some.
Going Rackless is not common so it is a great accomplishment for some.
Getting a Clean Sweep is extremely hard as a team and a great accomplishment for all.

I personally feel they should give out a different patch for the 1st, 5th, 10th, 25th, 50th and 100th time you accomplish those things instead of the same patch for every time. But it is also my understanding you can turn in your patches when you have 25 to get a special one, but I don't know anyone that has. I guess I will check with them the next time I see them.

Whoa, calm down. Sorry I insulted your league and their awards, I've never played APA. Been approached about joining plenty of times and had to kindly decline every single one of them because they outright asked me to sandbag. I consider that an insult to the hundreds of hours of hard work I've put into my game, and obviously if every encounter I've had with APA is someone asking me to not use the skills I worked my ass off for, I'm gonna have a negative outlook on it. Couple that with the numerous discussions that have taken place on these forums in the past, you get the picture. I play in a BCAPL, perfectly happy with that and there are plenty of challenging opponents for me. I was just curious since (like I said) I always see people have entire collections of trophies, never just one. And then the whole patches thing. I can see the novelty in them, I was surprised about getting a patch for beating a 6 or 7. I didn't consider myself worthy of being some type of trophy win :D
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Whoa, calm down. Sorry I insulted your league and their awards, I've never played APA. Been approached about joining plenty of times and had to kindly decline every single one of them because they outright asked me to sandbag. I consider that an insult to the hundreds of hours of hard work I've put into my game, and obviously if every encounter I've had with APA is someone asking me to not use the skills I worked my ass off for, I'm gonna have a negative outlook on it. Couple that with the numerous discussions that have taken place on these forums in the past, you get the picture. I play in a BCAPL, perfectly happy with that and there are plenty of challenging opponents for me. I was just curious since (like I said) I always see people have entire collections of trophies, never just one. And then the whole patches thing. I can see the novelty in them, I was surprised about getting a patch for beating a 6 or 7. I didn't consider myself worthy of being some type of trophy win :D

Different LOs treat the patch thing in a variety of different ways. Some make you pay for the patches, some don't. Some give all of them out, some don't.

Here, our LO doesn't make us pay for them, and only offers a few of them. And a player will only get one of each per session.

I have quite a few accumulated, likely to never do anything with them. I still think its kinda cool acknowledging some of the stuff.

Probably the reason you see people have so many is that like me, after a few years this stuff accumulates. Three sessions a year, four or five years, plenty of chances for trophies and patches. Smaller divisions will certainly give a player more opportunity to get the trophies.
 

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Different LOs treat the patch thing in a variety of different ways. Some make you pay for the patches, some don't. Some give all of them out, some don't.

Here, our LO doesn't make us pay for them, and only offers a few of them. And a player will only get one of each per session.

I have quite a few accumulated, likely to never do anything with them. I still think its kinda cool acknowledging some of the stuff.

Probably the reason you see people have so many is that like me, after a few years this stuff accumulates. Three sessions a year, four or five years, plenty of chances for trophies and patches. Smaller divisions will certainly give a player more opportunity to get the trophies.

Interesting. I've been playing BCAPL for about 3 or 4 years now, only managed to get one trophy.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Interesting. I've been playing BCAPL for about 3 or 4 years now, only managed to get one trophy.

Our division has gotten bigger, so its obviously tougher to even get in the playoffs here than it used to be. We now have 16 teams in our small little town, top 3 teams plus one wild card qualify for the playoffs. Then you gotta win the semi finals and finals...it is an accomplishment. Small scale, but still....

Of course some of the folks you see with large accumulations likely play more than one night, too. I play in both the 8-ball and 9-ball divisions here, some places you could play most every night if you wanted to, different divisions and such.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, you're wrong about Karate as well. In 5 years of Karate my son never got a trophy at a tourney if he didn't finish 1,2 or 3rd. Just the way it is. He's got a lot of Karate trophies but he earned them all finishing in top 3 in many regional events.

Depends on the school, I think. My oldest boy studied Kempo at the Fred Villari school across the street from our business (it was convenient). My MA buddies called it "Belts Are Us", because of how easily a kid advanced through the ranks (with a nice little "exam fee" preceding each belt BTW). I think Nic made it to green belt in like four months. He was 7 years old at the time. Lol

A few years later I enrolled him into the local boxing club. He had some natural ability, and he did OK, but I think he was a bit stunned the first time he got punched in the nose and found out that even a green belt in karate bleeds when that happens... especially when his dad basically bought it for him.
 

Toxictom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This caught my eye because our APA operator just offered to give a trophy for every 10 patches you returned to him.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Whoa, calm down. Sorry I insulted your league and their awards, I've never played APA. Been approached about joining plenty of times and had to kindly decline every single one of them because they outright asked me to sandbag. I consider that an insult to the hundreds of hours of hard work I've put into my game, and obviously if every encounter I've had with APA is someone asking me to not use the skills I worked my ass off for, I'm gonna have a negative outlook on it. Couple that with the numerous discussions that have taken place on these forums in the past, you get the picture. I play in a BCAPL, perfectly happy with that and there are plenty of challenging opponents for me. I was just curious since (like I said) I always see people have entire collections of trophies, never just one. And then the whole patches thing. I can see the novelty in them, I was surprised about getting a patch for beating a 6 or 7. I didn't consider myself worthy of being some type of trophy win :D

bcapl would go broke giving out 8 ball break and run patches with the open break rule:D.

no way to prove it since we did not keep stats back then but i would be willing to bet that i had twice as many break and runs in one year playing bcapl than i have gotten in 5 years in apa.
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Silver Member
Depends on the school, I think. My oldest boy studied Kempo at the Fred Villari school across the street from our business (it was convenient). My MA buddies called it "Belts Are Us", because of how easily a kid advanced through the ranks (with a nice little "exam fee" preceding each belt BTW). I think Nic made it to green belt in like four months. He was 7 years old at the time. Lol

A few years later I enrolled him into the local boxing club. He had some natural ability, and he did OK, but I think he was a bit stunned the first time he got punched in the nose and found out that even a green belt in karate bleeds when that happens... especially when his dad basically bought it for him.

LOL. I never said they did not "nickle and dime" me, cause yeah, they did. Everything costs something, every exam, every new uniform, blah, blah, blah, but they would not promote kids if they were not ready cause they didn't want them getting hurt. I saw plenty turned down. They still paid the exam fee, but if they failed, the next exam was free until they passed. Some kids just don't put much effort into it, just like any sport, while others really did.
 

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another thing: Do they not teach basic pool room etiquette? I was on the corner table last night, completely out of the way and I can't count how many APA players disturbed me. Sorry, but I don't have that problem in BCAPL.
 

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't count how many APA players disturbed me. Sorry, but I don't have that problem in BCAPL.

Yes, it is because APA players are some kind of special breed of humans that have lost all respect and consideration of other people.

Then when you combine that with BCA players that are breed to a much higher standard than normal humans, then conflict arises when they 2 are let out of their pens at the same time.

I personally think there should be laws against allowing a BCA player and an APA player from being within 100 yards of each other. Can you imagine the shear turmoil if a large group of the 2 were to meet in the playground? Oh the horror!!
 

jojopiff

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another thing: Do they not teach basic pool room etiquette? I was on the corner table last night, completely out of the way and I can't count how many APA players disturbed me. Sorry, but I don't have that problem in BCAPL.

I play both and enjoy both. Now, this statement is actually true just to the total amount of players in each. Do the majority of APA 2,3,4 (no offense anyone here who is) know basic etiquette? Probably not (I sure didn't when I was there) but because they likely haven't been around long enough or haven't been shown what's right and wrong in this aspect.

Now, the BCA average skill (around here anyways) is higher than that of the APA. Obviously plenty of skilled and respectful players in the APA, but many aren't that. The majority are lower skill level and not aware of the etiquette. I'm not knocking them as you don't know what you don't know. And, there are guys in the BCA who do the same things. So to characterize one as superior is incorrect, IMO. From my experiences, the actual number of players who show others respect are the same-ish. Just many more APA players so it's easy to lump them all together.

Side note, a very good player who only played APA for years and years joined our BCA team a couple years ago. He was constantly doing sharking things. He didn't know what he was doing was wrong or disrespectful. Most people are happy to learn and once you show them what they're doing is wrong, they are actually very sorry and rather embarrassed.
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I'll apologize in advance if this comes off as a troll, but do they hand out participation awards or something? I've never seen a person with just one APA trophy, they always have a bunch (reminds me of those ripoff martial arts schools giving kids trophies for every little thing)

And patches! What's up with those patches? Is it like boy scouts?

Such a sad and unsocial person............. try to get yourself together............

Kim
 
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