Question about different stances
- Thread starter BPG24
- Start date
in a nut shell? accuracy of stroke.. Whitch sounds lame but this is true.. In snooker pocketing is everything.... You dont see many snooker players with long bridges hands, or dipping and diving strokes, its straight and to the point.. the backswing is also useualy shorter as well..
HTH SPINDOKTOR
HTH SPINDOKTOR
BPG24 said:
i usually start tournaments with a traditional stance that after 3-4 games turns more 'snookered'. this may depend on my balance, but i blame my cue (and bad rolls). with a snooker style stance i tend to fall towards the table and not sideways. you'll hopefully get better input to your query than this as i'm sure i didn't help worth of shit.
edit; actually, this might help other beer drinkers as well.
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BPG24
Banned
olauzon said:
I appreciate all honest feedback!!!
I don't get to play very often anymore, because of this I am not anywhere near as consistent as I was when i played alot.(which is frustrating) I have noticed that since I am not playing much that I seem to play better with a snooker stance which seems strange. I just haven't figured out why this is the case or maybe it is just in my head.
I have been trying to figure this out forever, or at least the last 5 years or so.BPG24 said:
I don't play as often as I used to either, so I pretty much suck with either stance. However, a few years ago, I would switch between the two stances and sometimes I would play much better with a snooker-like stance while at other times I would play better in the traditional stance.
I was never able to really figure out which one was better for me because it changed depending on the day.
I took lessons with Jerry Brieseth and showed him both stances and asked if he had an opinion on whether I should stick with one or the other. He said both stances were fine, but I should stick with one rather than changing back and forth.
BPG24
Banned
JDB said:
Ya I can relate to what you are saying, I caught myself switching back and forth because neither way felt natural and considering how much pool i have played in the last 10+ years that is strange.
Maybe I am making something out of nothing but something weird seems to be going on.
Also my eye sight seemed to be effected by changing stances but that may be a whole other can of worms
Hey maybe the majority of players like us will never be able to play better or more consistently is because we all have the same problems! We keep thinking we have a problem and keep switching back and forth!
But i would really like hope that one day everything will fall into place and be happy with it.
But i would really like hope that one day everything will fall into place and be happy with it.
i used to use a snooker stance due to me having an english pool background.the tables are a different height so i had to completely readjust it to suit the lower american style tables.
based mine on capelle's play your best pool technique and seems to feel good.
i find the more i think about my stance the worse i play...if i let myself naturally get into position rather than placing my stance i play a lot better
based mine on capelle's play your best pool technique and seems to feel good.
i find the more i think about my stance the worse i play...if i let myself naturally get into position rather than placing my stance i play a lot better
Here's the skinny!!!
Snooker players claim the Snooker stance gives them a better line of sighting shots, and it is a deliberate logic styled form. But, and this is a big 'but', for those that play a lot, the body does not have straight lines in a Snooker stance. The back bone, shoulders, and neck are twisted to the side to accomodate the stance when sighting shots. This eventually wears on a person over time when playing a lot, and as you get older.
Are you aware of all the shoulder and neck problems Allison has had from her Snooker stance??? When you stand parallel to your cue, you have to contort yourself some to put your eyes directly over the cue, this is where the twisting of the body comes in. It twists your skeleton and your muscles, which will give you problems later on with pain, cramps, and soreness, and muscles that don't feel right.
The Pool stance, in contrast, was developed to keep straight natural lines with your skeletal frame and muscles. One that relied on yiour skeleton, and not muscles so much. Your muscles can tire, your skeleton does not.
That's why:
1) You stand with legs slightly more than shoulder width at a 45 degree angle to your cue.
2) Back leg is locked, front leg is just slightly bent. 60% of your weight on the back leg, 40% weight on your front leg.
3) Front foot is turned slightly towards the front of the cue. (about half of the 45 degrees, or 22.5 degrees to your cue).
4) Important: Bend at the waist, keeping your back straight. Do not bend your back, that is putting the weight on your back muscles, and you will be achey and sore after a 3 day tournament in your lower back.
(It also causes you to miss when you are fatigued as the soreness in your back will distract you from concentrating on the shot).
5) When bent over in position, your eyes should be directly over the cue. Line up with your chin over the cue.
6) Your bridge hand should be anywhere from 6-13 inches behind the tip. (6-10" is common, Filapinos run a little more with their style).
7) Your upper grip arm should be parallel to the table bed or floor on a normal shot. Your lower grip arm (forearm) should be at a 90 degree angle or staright vertical with the flloor (perpendicular to the floor).
8) This is a big one (that has variations): It is recommended that you use 2-3 fingers and a thumb to grip the cue keeping your wrist straight, not bent. This allows the cue to maintain a straight line (stroke) all the way throughout the stroke to the very end with no variation or wavering.
Gripping with a full fist or bent wrist will cause your cue to vary offline, particularly at the last 1/3 of the stroke which will cause you to miss certain type of shots, and therefore will limit how well you will play.
Being in good physical condition will make it easier to maintain the proper form and stance. A lot of variations to the recommended form come from players that are smaller or larger than normal or are not in good shape.
Someone that is not is good shape, and/or does not have real good form will usually break down after so many hours of playing. In other words, they have a harder time maintaining their best level of play, and their level of play will drop off. This also can be true for players that are getting older. (>50). As you age, your physical condition becomes more important as to how well you play and for how long.
If your playing goes bananas all of a sudden, ALWAYS check your form, stance, and stroke for the proper mechanics first, that is usually where the problem is. (Always go back to the basics) You are doing something wrong unconsciously, and it could stem from just some external pressure in your life that is affecting emotionally at the present time on an unconscious or conscious level.
If necessary, have a good friend that is a good player watch your shoot for 5 minutes watching your form, stance, and stroke, and see if they notice anything unusual or wrong, and bring it to your attention so you can correct it.
Yes, I realize I am a staunch advocate of the proper form, stance, and stroke. I have taught before, and most instructors would probably take a more softened approach than what I do regarding form. But, I believe to be excellent in a sport, you have to strive for it in ALL ways, and that begins with the proper form, stance, and stroke. To achieve excellence in something makes you feel good about yourself, brings recognition and status, particularly in a sport.
Plus, I had a father that always said, 'Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT THE FIRST TIME', among a few others, 'If you use a tool, you put it back exactly where you found it when your done' ....
Snooker players claim the Snooker stance gives them a better line of sighting shots, and it is a deliberate logic styled form. But, and this is a big 'but', for those that play a lot, the body does not have straight lines in a Snooker stance. The back bone, shoulders, and neck are twisted to the side to accomodate the stance when sighting shots. This eventually wears on a person over time when playing a lot, and as you get older.
Are you aware of all the shoulder and neck problems Allison has had from her Snooker stance??? When you stand parallel to your cue, you have to contort yourself some to put your eyes directly over the cue, this is where the twisting of the body comes in. It twists your skeleton and your muscles, which will give you problems later on with pain, cramps, and soreness, and muscles that don't feel right.
The Pool stance, in contrast, was developed to keep straight natural lines with your skeletal frame and muscles. One that relied on yiour skeleton, and not muscles so much. Your muscles can tire, your skeleton does not.
That's why:
1) You stand with legs slightly more than shoulder width at a 45 degree angle to your cue.
2) Back leg is locked, front leg is just slightly bent. 60% of your weight on the back leg, 40% weight on your front leg.
3) Front foot is turned slightly towards the front of the cue. (about half of the 45 degrees, or 22.5 degrees to your cue).
4) Important: Bend at the waist, keeping your back straight. Do not bend your back, that is putting the weight on your back muscles, and you will be achey and sore after a 3 day tournament in your lower back.
(It also causes you to miss when you are fatigued as the soreness in your back will distract you from concentrating on the shot).
5) When bent over in position, your eyes should be directly over the cue. Line up with your chin over the cue.
6) Your bridge hand should be anywhere from 6-13 inches behind the tip. (6-10" is common, Filapinos run a little more with their style).
7) Your upper grip arm should be parallel to the table bed or floor on a normal shot. Your lower grip arm (forearm) should be at a 90 degree angle or staright vertical with the flloor (perpendicular to the floor).
8) This is a big one (that has variations): It is recommended that you use 2-3 fingers and a thumb to grip the cue keeping your wrist straight, not bent. This allows the cue to maintain a straight line (stroke) all the way throughout the stroke to the very end with no variation or wavering.
Gripping with a full fist or bent wrist will cause your cue to vary offline, particularly at the last 1/3 of the stroke which will cause you to miss certain type of shots, and therefore will limit how well you will play.
Being in good physical condition will make it easier to maintain the proper form and stance. A lot of variations to the recommended form come from players that are smaller or larger than normal or are not in good shape.
Someone that is not is good shape, and/or does not have real good form will usually break down after so many hours of playing. In other words, they have a harder time maintaining their best level of play, and their level of play will drop off. This also can be true for players that are getting older. (>50). As you age, your physical condition becomes more important as to how well you play and for how long.
If your playing goes bananas all of a sudden, ALWAYS check your form, stance, and stroke for the proper mechanics first, that is usually where the problem is. (Always go back to the basics) You are doing something wrong unconsciously, and it could stem from just some external pressure in your life that is affecting emotionally at the present time on an unconscious or conscious level.
If necessary, have a good friend that is a good player watch your shoot for 5 minutes watching your form, stance, and stroke, and see if they notice anything unusual or wrong, and bring it to your attention so you can correct it.
Yes, I realize I am a staunch advocate of the proper form, stance, and stroke. I have taught before, and most instructors would probably take a more softened approach than what I do regarding form. But, I believe to be excellent in a sport, you have to strive for it in ALL ways, and that begins with the proper form, stance, and stroke. To achieve excellence in something makes you feel good about yourself, brings recognition and status, particularly in a sport.
Plus, I had a father that always said, 'Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT THE FIRST TIME', among a few others, 'If you use a tool, you put it back exactly where you found it when your done' ....
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BPG24 said:
I don't know exactly what you meant to say but I have had a huge problem with the combination of vision and stance. Small changes in my stance seem to have big effects on how I see lines. For one type of stance I might see a straight line with the cue under my right ear (like Earl). For another stance I see a straight line dead center under my chin.
Until a few months ago I couldn't figure out why some days I couldn't see straight lines (I was keeping my cue in the same position relative to my head). All I knew was that if I could see well my game was great, but if I couldn't it was terrible.
When I don't work on my stance I slowly change it (become sloppier) until my lines don't seem straight anymore. This is SO frustrating!! But now I have figured out how to exactly replicate a stance that works every time. I have to kind of "reset" every week to keep from getting all out of line. This basically involves some careful stance practice for 10-30 minutes. Very deliberate. Then I'm ready to go again.
As I've become aware of this problem now it takes less and less time to fix when I need to, and I've become more consistent about my stance. But there are times when (after not practicing my stance for a little while) I can't quite see the line I want.
Is this at all similar to what you have experienced? Has anyone ever experienced this?!
I have been using a squared off stance with my cue lined up on the outside of my right leg. This has helped me in seeing the line of the shot and I seem to go through the cue ball straighter and I am making my shots much more consistently. For some reason that I can't figure out it also seems easier for me to incorporate the pause at the end of my back swing. Since I don't play that many hours I haven't felt any bad consequences to my body from this stance that I have been using for several weeks. Also I hadn't heard that Allison suffered so badly especially since she is considered to have some of the best fundamentals around. Can anyone else confirm that she suffers so terribly?
BPG24
Banned
arsenius said:
For some reason when I don't play very often, my biggest problem isn't my stroke or stance or even touch. It is my vision. This is something that I just can't figure out because I just had my eyes checked 4 months ago. My eyesight is fine. In fact it was better than perfect.
I just can't see the tangent lines or even the path of the cue ball. Hell it is even hard to focus on my object point. This may be why I have been playing around with my stance.
BPG24
Banned
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=83123
This is a thread with some good info on eye exercises. I have tried a few, but never before i went to play
This is a thread with some good info on eye exercises. I have tried a few, but never before i went to play
A proper snooker stance makes standing up during the shot much more difficult, and can help keep you lined up for the entire shot. Many people also find it has aiming/sighting advantages as well.
The negative for many people (like me), is that it can get very uncomfortable after only a couple of hours of play.
I know of two very good players who use an american stance most of the time, but will resort to a snooker stance for certain pressure shots where they might have a tendency to get a little jumpy.
The negative for many people (like me), is that it can get very uncomfortable after only a couple of hours of play.
I know of two very good players who use an american stance most of the time, but will resort to a snooker stance for certain pressure shots where they might have a tendency to get a little jumpy.