Question about fairly new cue makers.

J

justinb386

Banned
I really hope that this question does not offend any fairly new cue makers on here, but I am just very curious why even the newest of cue makers are asking so much for their cues?

Is $500 and up standard, and fair for a plain jane custom, coming from a new or fairly new cue maker?

I wonder how good the quality of a custom cue from a fairly new cue maker could possibly be?

Maybe the costs of the very nice woods and all of the other components are so expensive, and the time consumed with building the cue are so long, so it is fair to ask $500 and up for even the most basic custom cue (if it is of high quality and very well made).

I hope that my thoughts were not offensive, but it just seems that prices for new custom cues have really skyrocketed over the years, and I just wonder why.

Most players can't really afford the prices that most cue makers want for their cues, or can they?

And if a dealer buys a new custom from a cue maker, then the price will be even higher from that dealer.

I would love to find a really good cue maker from maybe Asia (that builds cues that are possibly on par quality wise to a lot of the cue makers here in the US), if there are any out there that build a good quality players cue for an affordable price (and please do not recommend Lucasi to me).
 
It depends on what you mean by "new". For example, Eddie Cohen would certainly be considered new but his pedigree is excellent, having worked with Ariel Carmeli and Kent Davis and being a really good player himself. I think he charges a little more than 500 for a plain jane cue, but I wouldn't say that's overpriced considering the quality of his work I've seen on the forum and in person. I don't know how the cues hit but his attention to detail and taste seem pretty fantastic IMO.

However, that wouldn't have to be the case for everyone. I would personally be wary of someone who hasn't apprenticed under anyone, his work has never been seen before, and he comes straight out the gate charging a bunch for cues.
 
Whats 50 hours of your time worth, plus materials? Thats for a basic cue. COST.

At $500, less $100 for materials, this cue maker makes $8 an hour.

I ask you sir, does that sound unreasonable now?

My opinion is that most new cue makers struggle to even sell cues, little lone turn a profit. Now you know why.
 
Too Long a Response but What The Hell.....

"...why even the newest of cue makers are asking so much for their cues?"
They ask these prices, and some buyers pay them, because they don't understand the value or importance of experience.

"Is $500 and up standard, and fair for a plain jane custom, coming from a new or fairly new cue maker? "
In my opinion it isn't. You can acquire a Plain Jane custom from an experienced cuemaker in that price rage used and for slightly more, new.

"I wonder how good the quality of a custom cue from a fairly new cue maker could possibly be?"
The quality could be excellent or it could be poor. It depends upon the training, aptitude, and experience of the cuemaker.

In response to the cost of materials, while I understand your point as a component of the cost of the product, good materials in the hands of someone who doesn't quite know what to do with them doesn't automatically add value to them.

In the same way that a good cue doesn't make someone a good player, ownership of equipment doesn't automatically make someone a cuemaker.

If I buy a John Davis blank, and don't know how to face a joint, install a pin properly, and/or apply a finish, the $500 cost of the blank is meaningless.

If I were interested in making custom cues, I would find a well-known cuemaker seeking a true apprentice, quit my job, and work with him for an extended period of time. I would do whatever he asked me to do and over time get instruction on the use of machines, jigs, cutters, selection, evaluation and sourcing of materials, and observe and learn techniques, and basically absorb everything I could to gain from his experience.

For those who choose to learn on their own, it is a harder road, eased somewhat if they have an aptitude for the profession which would advance the learning curve.

And the one final component you can't buy and is not in any cuemaking books, dvds, or websites, is how to be a businessman.

That's probably a longer response than you wanted.

Later,
 
Warning: potential thread derailment

I am wondering (in general - not just in regards to the OP's question) why everyone is always looking for a new, next greatest cue when there are thousands of 'vintage' cues that can be had for pennies on the dollar, and are excellent cues, especially if you are in the market for a plain jane or merry widow type cue.
I see parallels in the vintage electronics market, where many people buy vintage 70's and 80's gear because the build quality is there and the sound is there, and the price for performance ration is enormous. I kind of see the same thing in cues. I just bought a green label Mali cue on the local CL for $25. It needs a refinish, but it plays great and would look wonderful when re-done. With a complete refinish I would have a total of about $150-$200 in it and have a great shooting cue - probably for my son. Add to the list Heublers, Vikings, Palmers, McDermotts, etc and you have thousands of cues and bargain prices to choose from, and you face little risk of taking a loss trying one out - that can't be said of the new cue market unless you are buying from the bulletproof cue makers.

Thanks for reading my musings - please return to your regularly scheduled thread. :)
 
JasBy said:
Warning: potential thread derailment

I am wondering (in general - not just in regards to the OP's question) why everyone is always looking for a new, next greatest cue when there are thousands of 'vintage' cues that can be had for pennies on the dollar, and are excellent cues, especially if you are in the market for a plain jane or merry widow type cue.
Click to expand...

You broke the code.
As far as cues being expensive. Equipment, time, materials, skills....and demand. And I'm a total sucker for a bumperless sneaky.
Funny...my first 2piece cues I bought in the 60's cost around $35-45 dollars. I was bringing home $42.50 a week. One weeks salary for a cue. Funny today people are buying cues for a weeks salary or more. We don't change do we.
 
Last edited:
JasBy said:
Warning: potential thread derailment

I am wondering (in general - not just in regards to the OP's question) why everyone is always looking for a new, next greatest cue when there are thousands of 'vintage' cues that can be had for pennies on the dollar, and are excellent cues, especially if you are in the market for a plain jane or merry widow type cue.

<snip>

Add to the list Heublers, Vikings, Palmers, McDermotts, etc and you have thousands of cues and bargain prices to choose from, and you face little risk of taking a loss trying one out - that can't be said of the new cue market unless you are buying from the bulletproof cue makers.
Click to expand...

I often wonder the thing and here is the answer.

Some don't care about future value.
Some expect to trade it for a different cue next month.
Some don't want an "old" cue.
Some think new cues play better.
Some don't want an older cue that is too heavy for them.
Some don't know anything about cues.
Some just don't care, period.
 
Hi,

you've just discovered why we've invented the mass market. Develop once, manufacture a 1000 times at a fraction of the overhead you'd usually have, with decent quality and consistency control afterwards (before you buy).

If you're thinking about 500$ you'd better be off with an excellent shaft (Mezz, SS360, whatever, take your pick around 200$) where the behaviour and quality has been asserted numerous times by other players and have a nice butt from just about any cue you'd like or have this one custom made if you're after a certain look.

With a fully custom made cue you have just about no idea how it feels, hits and holds up over time - and you cannot return it! If you use a mass market product you can try 10 of the same model and keep exactly the one you feel comfortable with. Or have the mass model customized (diameter, taper, tip, whatever) for small money.

I also like the idea to get a used cue and have it refurbished because they need love, too :p
And I really think that if you need 50 hours for a pretty basic cue to manufacture you're doing something terribly wrong! And there is no secret sauce, really.
But that's - again - not a popular opinion to have here...

Cheers,
M
 
M.G. said:
And I really think that if you need 50 hours for a pretty basic cue to manufacture you're doing something terribly wrong!
Click to expand...

In your opinion, what should be the build time for a basic cue? And would that be from scratch (square wood) or from a blank?
 
you are paying part of the price for the name. so new cuemakers do not have the name so their cues should be much more inexpensive. just like an artist.

their time is really only worth 8 bucks an hour till they attain perfection and a reputation.
if they dont want to wait and think that their no name cue is worth near what known makers are worth most will get washed out.

in reality a decent fairly plain cue from a newby should be just a few hundred dollars if it is quality.

as said most average players would be much better of finding a production or used cue and get a nice shaft for it.
 
JasBy said:
Warning: potential thread derailment

I am wondering (in general - not just in regards to the OP's question) why everyone is always looking for a new, next greatest cue when there are thousands of 'vintage' cues that can be had for pennies on the dollar, and are excellent cues, especially if you are in the market for a plain jane or merry widow type cue.
I see parallels in the vintage electronics market, where many people buy vintage 70's and 80's gear because the build quality is there and the sound is there, and the price for performance ration is enormous. I kind of see the same thing in cues. I just bought a green label Mali cue on the local CL for $25. It needs a refinish, but it plays great and would look wonderful when re-done. With a complete refinish I would have a total of about $150-$200 in it and have a great shooting cue - probably for my son. Add to the list Heublers, Vikings, Palmers, McDermotts, etc and you have thousands of cues and bargain prices to choose from, and you face little risk of taking a loss trying one out - that can't be said of the new cue market unless you are buying from the bulletproof cue makers.

Thanks for reading my musings - please return to your regularly scheduled thread. :)
Click to expand...

I had a few Mali cues back in the 90's, and I really did not care for the hit of them. I never liked the looks of Mali cues either. I always thought of them as cheaply made cues. Was very surprised to learn years later that they have always been built in the USA.
 
They are...

maha said:
you are paying part of the price for the name. so new cuemakers do not have the name so their cues should be much more inexpensive. just like an artist.

their time is really only worth 8 bucks an hour till they attain perfection and a reputation.
if they dont want to wait and think that their no name cue is worth near what known makers are worth most will get washed out.

in reality a decent fairly plain cue from a newby should be just a few hundred dollars if it is quality.

as said most average players would be much better of finding a production or used cue and get a nice shaft for it.
Click to expand...

I don't get where the op is coming from...

4-500$ for a plain jane is NOT name recognition category... That is good craftsmanship category...

Go to sugartree, or southwest (glorified production cues anyways) if you want to know what a merry widow with name recognition costs...

Jaden
 
JasBy said:
Heublers, Vikings, Palmers, McDermotts, etc and you have thousands of cues and bargain prices to choose from, and you face little risk of taking a loss trying one out - that can't be said of the new cue market unless you are buying from the bulletproof cue makers.
Click to expand...

Those are PRODUCTION cues! :roll eyes: What everyone needs is a custom that HITS A TON and is the latest/greatest name around here.

Production Cue is a dirty word around these parts...

People buy a Sneaky Pete made by ___ _______ for HUGE amounts of ca$h? A Sneaky Pete? Are you on glue?
 
Here is a example what a basic cue costs in materials:

Purpleheart core $15
Maple forarm/butt $25
Bloodwood handle $10
Phenolic for rings $15
Joint pin $10
Shaft $20
Ferrule, bumper $10

So basic materials is $105, not counting epoxy, glue, paint, sandpaper, wear on equipment etc.

The investment cost in machinery for making a cue, even a basic one is pretty high.
Even a noob cuemaker would like to see some return on his or hers investment.
I`m in about $7000-8000 already. So it`s gonna take alot of work to break even.
 
I'd look at a Pechauer P04 for around $400. Very nice wrapless cocobolo and curly maple cue. Lifetime warranty including warpage. I know it's not "custom" but it's a very nice cue. Later on the OP could spend $200-$250 for almost any LD shaft he might want to try, if at all. I'd recommend Jim at Cheapcues. He is great guy, but they are available on almost any online site.
 
CMarshall said:
Those are PRODUCTION cues! :roll eyes: What everyone needs is a custom that HITS A TON and is the latest/greatest name around here.

Production Cue is a dirty word around these parts...

People buy a Sneaky Pete made by ___ _______ for HUGE amounts of ca$h? A Sneaky Pete? Are you on glue?
Click to expand...
They can be quite expensive, if you start with a $400 Davies blank, that cue is gonna cost atleast the doubble when it's finished!
 
Rent isn't free. Power bill's are not free. My power bill is $50 every month even if I don't step in my shop. $200 if I'm there every day working, more during peek months
 
Type79 said:
In your opinion, what should be the build time for a basic cue? And would that be from scratch (square wood) or from a blank?
Click to expand...

Reasonably sized blanks - 2 days. As Mister Szamboti also said :)
Possibly less if waiting for stuff (glue, ...) is excluded.
 
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