is it unusual for cue makers to use a ss joint and a brass pin? i dont think ive sen this before but then again i know very little about the cue making process.what would the pros and cons be from this combination? thanks for your replies and have a good one!
question about new cue
- Thread starter dimes33
- Start date
Viking made many like that. If it is the big pin like Martin or a Ball Screw type that would be fine. If it is a small brass pin going into a brass insert in the shaft that is bad as the pin can freeze into the insert. Never run two metals of the same kind against each other. Schuler has used brass pin and thin wall stainless collar for many years but they use aluminum insert.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Maybe a dumb question from a misguided engineer, but is this a good idea in the long run ? These are pretty dissimilar metals that could generate some galvanic action. I know, these are cues and not boats, which is why it might be a dumb question. My thinking is that wood has some moisture content, so there could be corrosion over the years.
Dave, found a great site while checking how far apart Brass and SS are : http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
Dave, found a great site while checking how far apart Brass and SS are : http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
Engineer?
No offense, but what kind of engineer are you? Threaded brass inserts coupled with steel pins have been used for well over 100 years! Brass makes an excellent nut of any sort due to its' natural lubricity, hardness (soft!), and corrosion resistance.
As Chris posted earlier, it is a terrible idea to have two metals of the same kind used for the male and female sides of a threaded joint. They will be very likely to seize, sometimes permanently.
BTW, what was the earliest metal used for nautical applications, and why?
No offense, but what kind of engineer are you? Threaded brass inserts coupled with steel pins have been used for well over 100 years! Brass makes an excellent nut of any sort due to its' natural lubricity, hardness (soft!), and corrosion resistance.
As Chris posted earlier, it is a terrible idea to have two metals of the same kind used for the male and female sides of a threaded joint. They will be very likely to seize, sometimes permanently.
BTW, what was the earliest metal used for nautical applications, and why?
class act said:
Not to be a nit picker, but, steel pins have only been used simce
circa 1960. Brass pins into brass inserts worked more than adequately
from the early 1900s(?)
All the Hoppes, Rambows, most Paradises, early Palmers, Vikings, and countless other cuemakers and companies little known and long forgotten used brass pins and inserts with brass joint collars.
Not to fly in the face of theory, But I have never even heard of a
single one of these cues seizing.
Perhaps it has something to do with the 'class of fit' of the threads.
DaveK, who modestly clamis to not be a real machinist, sure seems to know an awful lot about machining - IMHO, might be able to
shed some light.
Dale
class act said:
None taken, and Electrical. Galvanic action is the generation of a voltage between two dissimilar metals in the presence of an electrolyte. I was thinking that maybe the moisture in the wood might act as an electrolyte allowing galvanic action to cause corrosion. Brass and Stainless do not develop that great a voltage, but it's there.
Generally speaking you are correct about brass. Having said that, there are so many different brass alloys that have different charactoristics that one should really know the alloy and the requirements of the application before specifiing a "brass". In other words, some exhibit more self-lubricity than others.
Still not a pool cue, but have a look at this page to see examples of what I am speaking of :
http://www.corrview.com/tech_p_10.htm
class act said:
Some metals, ones that rely on a surface layer of oxidation for various properties, can seize when threaded together if the oxidation layer is damaged and the base metals come into contact with each other under pressure. Aluminum is bad for this, as is stainless. The dissimilar metal solution is fine, but again you have to account for galvanic action if there is an electrolyte present. Apparently the moisture content in the wood handle and shaft may not be sufficient to cause corrosion.
Um, Bronze ? Because it was about the only metal of any value around (copper corrodes like mad and is a bit soft) ?
Dave
thanks for the replies men but i should have been more clear i guess.i have a cue being made and it has a stainless steel joint and a 3/8 brass pin so obv no shaft inserts.i was just curious about this because in all my time i have never seen it and i was wondering what the good and bad will be.thanks again!
"stainless steel joint and a 3/8 brass pin so obv no shaft inserts.i was just curious about this because in all my time i have never seen it and i was wondering what the good and bad will be.thanks again!"
Flat faced joint? Shouldn't make any differnce at all. There's no brass to ss contact.
Never seen brass threads seize....Stainless way too often.
Andy
I love the smell of Neverseeze in the morning.
Flat faced joint? Shouldn't make any differnce at all. There's no brass to ss contact.
Never seen brass threads seize....Stainless way too often.
Andy
I love the smell of Neverseeze in the morning.
dimes33 said:
I'm lost! Just because a cue has a steel joint and a brass pin, why is it "obvious" that there would be no insert? Joint has nothing to do with the pin and though now-a-days it is more common to see stainless pins instead of brass, the use of an insert is dependent upon the pitch of the pin much more so than the pins material.
Dick
DaveK said:
Not an electrical engineer or anything, but I'm with ya here
Growing up off the Atlantic waters, I've been around boats quite a bit. Zinc anodes are a must due to the salt water. It can eat an outboard up quick without them, even if you keep the motor flushed well with fresh water after each use, keep it greased and sprayed down with protectent. I also had a salt water fish tank hobby one time, and not real sure what takes place, but saltwater seems to have almost what I guess I can best call some kind of static charge. It's a really bad combination with metals of almost any kind IMO. AS You mentioned though, these are boats, And My experience is with salt water. The salt air has an extreme effect also. Mix the sun and rain in, and that's some harsh elements regardless.
Still yet You are correct pins on cues can corrode too, I've seen It, and I'm sure any Moisture content present in the cue does'nt help the situation. I have mostly seen this in brass, even if brass on brass both pin and insert. I also wonder about moisture inside a cue case.
I do think the corrosion could be combated easily with alittle maintainence now & again by cleaning and polishing. How much wear that will create over the years may be another can of worms though.
Greg