Question about 'The Feel' of a cue

Billiardnaire

Billiardnaire

New member
DISCLAIMER: I have found many forum topics and threads on here that are somewhat related to this topic. However, I have not found one that answers my specific question.


Over my many years of playing pocket billiards, I have experienced a plethora of various styles of joints available for two piece cues - with a wide range of materials.

Along the way, I have discovered my favorite set-up is a 3/8x10 stainless steel pin into a wood threaded shaft. It is simply my preference. It is what feels the best to me, and best suits my play style.

That being said, I am currently in the process of working with a cuemaker to get a new custom cue made.

I have always favored the aesthetic of a stainless steel joint. Not how they play, simply the look.

I have never experienced playing with a cue that has a 3/8x10 stainless steel pin into a wood threaded shaft - flat faced wood-to-wood joint - with a stainless steel joint collar. The collars of my cues are all made of different materials.

My question for any/all that have experience with 3/8x10 joints - both with stainless steel joint collars and with other materials...

If two cues are made identical - the exact same specs from tip to rubber bumper, with the only changed variable being a stainless steel joint collar -vs- acrylic; phenolic; resin base, how drastic of a difference is the feel and overall playability of the cue?

I know there will be a difference in weight of materials. That can be balanced out in the making of the cue.
Also, I have heard the majority of the cue's feel derives from the choice of tip, ferrule, shaft.

With all of that in mind...
I like the 'soft' (for lack of a better descriptor) feel of my 3/8x10 stainless steel pins into a wood threaded shaft and flat faced wood-to-wood contact in the joint.

The bottom line I am curious about...
Will using a stainless steel collar jeopardize that feel I am accustomed to? Will it drastically stiffen the hit or diminish the softness?

Thank you for your time and consideration.
 
Billiardnaire said:
DISCLAIMER: I have found many forum topics and threads on here that are somewhat related to this topic. However, I have not found one that answers my specific question.


Over my many years of playing pocket billiards, I have experienced a plethora of various styles of joints available for two piece cues - with a wide range of materials.

Along the way, I have discovered my favorite set-up is a 3/8x10 stainless steel pin into a wood threaded shaft. It is simply my preference. It is what feels the best to me, and best suits my play style.

That being said, I am currently in the process of working with a cuemaker to get a new custom cue made.

I have always favored the aesthetic of a stainless steel joint. Not how they play, simply the look.

I have never experienced playing with a cue that has a 3/8x10 stainless steel pin into a wood threaded shaft - flat faced wood-to-wood joint - with a stainless steel joint collar. The collars of my cues are all made of different materials.

My question for any/all that have experience with 3/8x10 joints - both with stainless steel joint collars and with other materials...

If two cues are made identical - the exact same specs from tip to rubber bumper, with the only changed variable being a stainless steel joint collar -vs- acrylic; phenolic; resin base, how drastic of a difference is the feel and overall playability of the cue?

I know there will be a difference in weight of materials. That can be balanced out in the making of the cue.
Also, I have heard the majority of the cue's feel derives from the choice of tip, ferrule, shaft.

With all of that in mind...
I like the 'soft' (for lack of a better descriptor) feel of my 3/8x10 stainless steel pins into a wood threaded shaft and flat faced wood-to-wood contact in the joint.

The bottom line I am curious about...
Will using a stainless steel collar jeopardize that feel I am accustomed to? Will it drastically stiffen the hit or diminish the softness?

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Click to expand...
You have to weigh your options.
Stainless steel joints.
Full joint threaded 5/8x11 or 5/8x18 inner thread.
Or
3/4x16 inner thread. Much lighter than the full joint.
There use to be a stainless joint that had a 3/4" i.d.
I don't know if that is still offered or not.
All styles change the feel of the hit.
Can of worms on this Forum. Lol
3/8x10 old style 3 inch long about 1 ounce in weight.
Versus the modified screw at 1.3 or 1.4 oz. In weight
 
I have one cue that has a 3/8x10 Mod thread in G-10, !/2 ss joint. I dont shoot well enough to tell the difference between that and all my 5/16 x14 piloted cues.
20220727_194219.jpg
 
Billiardnaire said:
DISCLAIMER: I have found many forum topics and threads on here that are somewhat related to this topic. However, I have not found one that answers my specific question.


Over my many years of playing pocket billiards, I have experienced a plethora of various styles of joints available for two piece cues - with a wide range of materials.

Along the way, I have discovered my favorite set-up is a 3/8x10 stainless steel pin into a wood threaded shaft. It is simply my preference. It is what feels the best to me, and best suits my play style.

That being said, I am currently in the process of working with a cuemaker to get a new custom cue made.

I have always favored the aesthetic of a stainless steel joint. Not how they play, simply the look.

I have never experienced playing with a cue that has a 3/8x10 stainless steel pin into a wood threaded shaft - flat faced wood-to-wood joint - with a stainless steel joint collar. The collars of my cues are all made of different materials.

My question for any/all that have experience with 3/8x10 joints - both with stainless steel joint collars and with other materials...

If two cues are made identical - the exact same specs from tip to rubber bumper, with the only changed variable being a stainless steel joint collar -vs- acrylic; phenolic; resin base, how drastic of a difference is the feel and overall playability of the cue?

I know there will be a difference in weight of materials. That can be balanced out in the making of the cue.
Also, I have heard the majority of the cue's feel derives from the choice of tip, ferrule, shaft.

With all of that in mind...
I like the 'soft' (for lack of a better descriptor) feel of my 3/8x10 stainless steel pins into a wood threaded shaft and flat faced wood-to-wood contact in the joint.

The bottom line I am curious about...
Will using a stainless steel collar jeopardize that feel I am accustomed to? Will it drastically stiffen the hit or diminish the softness?

Thank you for your time and consideration.
Click to expand...
This one caught my eye since we seem to have the same preferences when it comes to "hit" (whatever that is).

I can only share my experience as everyone has their own definition of hit and feel. It's not something that's easy to put into words.

I've been playing for ~50 years and once I had played with enough cues to actually have a preference I found that I like the "feel" of the hit of a big-pin wood-to-wood joint. I have tried more cues than I can count and even bought a SS joint cue as I like the look as well, but did not like the hit of any SS joint cue I've ever tried. There's just something about it that rubs me the wrong way. I can't begin to explain it but I can tell you that if you blindfold me and give me a cue with a SS joint and have me hit it I'll immediately tell you I don't like the hit. I wouldn't necessarily be able to tell you it had a SS joint but I do know for a fact I wouldn't like the hit.

The only cue I have ever returned to the seller was fairly early in my playing and was a Helmstetter with a SS joint. Beautiful, well built cue, but from the first hit I could immediately tell it wasn't the cue for me. Shot one rack with it and hated every shot. I really wanted to love the cue because it was the most money I had ever spent on a cue. Before that I had played with an Adam and a Mali (yes, those were the days :)), and both hit similar and way different than the Helmstetter. Much less "crisp" is as close as I can come to explaining it. I ended up trading it back to the seller for a McDermott that I ended up playing with for 19 years and would still be playing with it had it not got stolen. I didn't realize until later and after shooting with several other SS joint cues that it was the joint that I didn't like. To me, they do have a "signature" hit. Of course they all vary, but there's something in the hit that they all share as well. I've noticed that people who love "crisp" hits tend to gravitate to SS jointed cues whether by chance or on purpose.

Now, as to a big pin SS joint. I can't say that I've ever seen one. May be worth a try to throw one together and see. But I really think the signature "hit" I mentioned above comes from the frequency of the vibrations in the butt originating from the SS collar to shaft face itself (but what do I know?). I can't tell the difference between the hits of a small vs large pin (although some say they can), but once you throw in a SS joint I can definitely feel the difference. Just my opinion, but I think once the cue is screwed together the pin has done its job and doesn't affect the hit much. Of course, the big pin can affect the balance point but that's something you address during the build.

The only thing I can think of to get the look while remedying the SS "feel/hit" would be to have a super thin SS sleeve at the joint. That would probably lessen the harshness of the vibrations, maybe. But even though I like the look, I don't like it to the point of building something like that.

Problem is there are so many variables when it comes to "hit", different woods, even if they come from the same tree, different tolerances in the glue joints, etc. etc.... Then throw in the biggest variable of all, everyone's different definition of what "hit" is and it's a wonder that we ever end up with something we like.

Sorry for the mini novel but this one peaked my interest and I have thought about it way too much over the years. After reading over this diatribe I've decided it sounds more like mental masturbation than anything useful so this is the last time I'm even going to think about it! Probably didn't help at all did I? Sorry..... :)
 
kgoods said:
Sorry for the mini novel but this one peaked my interest and I have thought about it way too much over the years.
Click to expand...
No need to apologize at all.

Your experience sounds shockingly similar to my own. I had nearly the exact same experience from Adam to Mali to McDermott. The only difference for me was a custom Joss cue (again, because I love the look of the shiny stainless steel joint) and not a Helmstetter.

I had my Joss custom made by Dan (R.I.P), and absolutely love how it looks. I just can not really get comfortable with how it plays. Being a custom order, I could not return it, and ended up giving it to a family member.

kgoods said:
I ended up trading it back to the seller for a McDermott that I ended up playing with for 19 years and would still be playing with it had it not got stolen.
Click to expand...
My two McDermott cues were made in 1988. They are nearly identical, just with two different woods for the butt. No matter how many cues have come and gone in my collection, my McDermott cues have seen far more table time than all others. I just can't seem to find that same feel that I love, in a piloted stainless steel joint, nor in a smaller pin, brass insert, etc.

Honestly, the cue I am currently having custom made for me now is not all that different from my old McDermott cues. It will have an overall similar look - using the same wood, same big joint pin into a wood threaded shaft, etc. The only reasons I decided to not have McDermott make my new custom are - I want a solid 1-piece of wood butt end, and not the segmented 3-piece construction that McDermott and so many other cuemakers go with these days. Also, I have witnessed the new style rubber bumpers that McDermott uses, fall off of players' cues.

Thank you for your response.
It's nice to read that someone else out there shares my view and favors the same type of feel and hit.

I suppose we can't have it all. HAHA
I'll have to sacrifice the look of the stainless steel joint - for the feel that best suits my game.

Happy cueing!
 
There is an option, a very thin Stainless sleeve that goes over the joint material, that gives the look of SS but not the feel of SS. It's literally less than .100" wall thickness before machining it to fit the actual final joint diameter.
 
Zerksies said:
Some people will argue with you here that the joint has no effect of feel of the hit. I disagree with that statement
Click to expand...

It has never been quantified. I'm sure it has an effect, but what it is and to what extent remains unknown.

The most well-known test resulted in nobody being able to tell what type of joint a cue had in a blind test.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
It has never been quantified. I'm sure it has an effect, but what it is and to what extent remains unknown.

The most well-known test resulted in nobody being able to tell what type of joint a cue had in a blind test.
Click to expand...

Got three cues with a Vantage shaft, 5/16 x14, Uniloc and Radial, I would not be able to tell the difference in hit, the only difference I noticed is the weight of the cues. To me, one of the biggest factor is the tip, one of the cues was "crappy" because it was an ounce lighter than the two other cues, I thought it was the weight that made me judge the cue as crappy, until I replaced the tip and it played the same as the two other cues
 
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