Question for Jay Helfert

[OLD NO 9]

Jay, If hypothetically George Rood, Vernon Elliot and Bernie Schwartz were in a 9 or 10-ball ring game winner takes all, who do you think would leave with the money?

 

[pdcue]

Jay, If hypothetically George Rood, Vernon Elliot and Bernie Schwartz were in a 9 or 10-ball ring game winner takes all, who do you think would leave with the money?

I'm not Jay - but I'm bettin on George

Dale(who thinks Jay will too)

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, If hypothetically George Rood, Vernon Elliot and Bernie Schwartz were in a 9 or 10-ball ring game winner takes all, who do you think would leave with the money?

That's a tough one. They are really different generations, but their careers overlapped. For a long time Rood was one of the best 9-Ball players in the country (he was Lassiter's favorite). So George had longevity. For a few years in the early 70's Bernie was just about unbeatable. Too bad they didn't meet up back then, because George was still ruling the tables in Dayton (no one who came through could beat him). He just never traveled anymore because he was so busy with his dog breeding and dog shows.

To give you a better idea. George was from the Mosconi, Caras and Crane generation and they all knew and respected him. Bernie was from the generation of hustlers like Cornbread, Eddie Taylor, Richie Florence, Billy Johnson/Wade Crane, Billy Incardona, Jimmy Marino, Greg Stevens etc. Like I said, for a few years there he was acknowledged as the best 9-Ball player.

If you threw Lassiter into the mix it would get even more complicated. But Luther was not big on ring games. He liked head to head play. Throw in Harold Worst and the whole equation shifts again. Worst refused to lose to anyone at any game. Like Efren he could raise his game to whatever level necessary to win. He wanted to play Lassiter for big money at 9-Ball and was preparing to take on Ronnie at One Pocket even up, when no one else would.

In that one short span of time I would have taken Bernie to win a ring game with these three guys. He wouldn't accept losing to anyone and would wear out the other two. Of course George and Vernon wouldn't go down without a fight. Vernon was not one to get in bad games, so he wouldn't be playing a ring game with these two anyway.

IMO Bernie would get down in the dirt and just not quit. George might tire of the game after long enough. He always had other priorities. That said, imo George was the best player. He had Mosconi like ability with perfect cue ball control. Consistently good, rarely missing anything. I never saw him falter or show any weakness either. He just went about his business, running rack after rack until you quit. George was like a 9-Ball machine, wind him up and he just kept going. If Bernie had come to Dayton back then, George would have definitely played him. But they would have played a Race to Eleven and George might have been the favorite heads up. I think he might have frustrated Bernie and made him quit after a couple of sets. I can see Bernie asking him to raise the bet and when George refused he would quit. Bernie always wanted to bet high and George would maintain the same bet they started with. If they started at 200 a set he would make you win it back the same way. That was George.

There were many good players in the Midwest back then and the smart ones ducked George Rood. A lot of top hustlers made the mistake of challenging him and came out second best. In that era, only Worst had the ability and toughness to possibly beat George imo. I doubt they ever played, since George never went to Johnston City and I don't know of Harold ever coming to Dayton. I'm guessing if Harold could get him to play a set for 5,000 he would have gone down there and challenged him. Harold definitely wasn't going somewhere to play a set for 200.

 

[liakos]

That's a tough one. They are really different generations, but their careers overlapped. For a long time Rood was one of the best 9-Ball players in the country (he was Lassiter's favorite). So George had longevity. For a few years in the early 70's Bernie was just about unbeatable. Too bad they didn't meet up back then, because George was still ruling the tables in Dayton (no one who came through could beat him). He just never traveled anymore because he was so busy with his dog breeding and dog shows.

To give you a better idea. George was from the Mosconi, Caras and Crane generation and they all knew and respected him. Bernie was from the generation of hustlers like Cornbread, Eddie Taylor, Richie Florence, Billy Johnson/Wade Crane, Billy Incardona, Jimmy Marino, Greg Stevens etc. Like I said, for a few years there he was acknowledged as the best 9-Ball player.

If you threw Lassiter into the mix it would get even more complicated. But Luther was not big on ring games. He liked head to head play. Throw in Harold Worst and the whole equation shifts again. Worst refused to lose to anyone at any game. Like Efren he could raise his game to whatever level necessary to win. He wanted to play Lassiter for big money at 9-Ball and was preparing to take on Ronnie at One Pocket even up, when no one else would.

In that one short span of time I would have taken Bernie to win a ring game with these three guys. He wouldn't accept losing to anyone and would wear out the other two. Of course George and Vernon wouldn't go down without a fight. Vernon was not one to get in bad games, so he wouldn't be playing a ring game with these two anyway.

IMO Bernie would get down in the dirt and just not quit. George might tire of the game after long enough. He always had other priorities. That said, imo George was the best player. He had Mosconi like ability with perfect cue ball control. Consistently good, rarely missing anything. I never saw him falter or show any weakness either. He just went about his business, running rack after rack until you quit. George was like a 9-Ball machine, wind him up and he just kept going. If Bernie had come to Dayton back then, George would have definitely played him. But they would have played a Race to Eleven and George might have been the favorite heads up. I think he might have frustrated Bernie and made him quit after a couple of sets. I can see Bernie asking him to raise the bet and when George refused he would quit. Bernie always wanted to bet high and George would maintain the same bet they started with. If they started at 200 a set he would make you win it back the same way. That was George.

There were many good players in the Midwest back then and the smart ones ducked George Rood. A lot of top hustlers made the mistake of challenging him and came out second best. In that era, only Worst had the ability and toughness to possibly beat George imo. I doubt they ever played, since George never went to Johnston City and I don't know of Harold ever coming to Dayton. I'm guessing if Harold could get him to play a set for 5,000 he would have gone down there and challenged him. Harold definitely wasn't going somewhere to play a set for 200.

I've heard some stories about Harold. From what I gather, seems like he may have been the best all around player of all time considering his ability to learn the games he did in such a short time.

If you had to pick, from all of your experience, who would you consider the #1 player from today and yesteryear?

I can only pick efren because we have video and stories of what he has done. I've only been playing and learning the about the pool world for 10 yrs so I don't have much experience and from the way it's looking, not much happening here in the states at the moment!

 

[jay helfert]

I've heard some stories about Harold. From what I gather, seems like he may have been the best all around player of all time considering his ability to learn the games he did in such a short time.

If you had to pick, from all of your experience, who would you consider the #1 player from today and yesteryear?

I can only pick efren because we have video and stories of what he has done. I've only been playing and learning the about the pool world for 10 yrs so I don't have much experience and from the way it's looking, not much happening here in the states at the moment!

Check my top ten on the other thread.