Question for tournament players
- Thread starter azhousepro
- Start date
Dave,
I was looking into cost of used and new chess clocks and found that they cost about $50 new and the low end used was about $30.
How would you use a chess clock for slow players? set a time limit the remainder of the match? What if the limit is exceeded? would the player with the most won games win? what if the match is tied at the end of the time limit?
Slow play can really stinkup a tournament, especially if it is a ONE day event.
Difficult situation for everyone.
I have use a 30 sec shot clock for slow players. This works good.
I was looking into cost of used and new chess clocks and found that they cost about $50 new and the low end used was about $30.
How would you use a chess clock for slow players? set a time limit the remainder of the match? What if the limit is exceeded? would the player with the most won games win? what if the match is tied at the end of the time limit?
Slow play can really stinkup a tournament, especially if it is a ONE day event.
Difficult situation for everyone.
I have use a 30 sec shot clock for slow players. This works good.
davesyrja said:
sniper said:I know it's already been mentioned but you must have enough tables, I recently played a 32 player tournament that had 4 tablesWaiting 45 minutes in between matches just isn't acceptable. Good way to ruin a tourny.
45 minutes!?
You better not do ant Planet Pool events!! I wish there was that short between!
-pige
Tom In Cincy said:
Tom,
The "Game time II" is listed for $39.95 new. I like the idea of a chess clock because a game could be put on the clock without requiring a time keeper.
To be even more radical, I think that all matches in a tournament, with the exception of the semi_final and final, should be on the clock from the beginning. In a large tournament, by the time that you realize some matches have gone overtime, quite a bit of damage is already done. At the recent MidWest open, there were some slow players that wreaked havoc with the schedule.
You've got 8 tables in your great tournament room at Hardtimes. Getting a clock for each table may not be out of the question. I'd actually like to see a chess type time clock as a built-in option for a pool table.
As for the time limit thing, I would only use total elapsed time for those strange games that only a purist could love - like one-pocket.
Dave, I have heard the idea of a chess clock before and I like it. It would keep the slow player moving and still allow the fast player to take a little extra time, on a hard shot, when needed.davesyrja said:
Like you, I would also like to see clocks used for every match. In that way, you are not singling out the problem players and everyone is playing under the same conditions.
Too many times, have I seen one or two players make a tournament drag on for ever. Average speed players are forced to wait for extremely long periods of time, waiting for matches to finish.
I am not a fast player, but I am not an extremely slow player either. I, for one, would welcome the chess clocks.
Starting time needs to be a little flexible with the smaller fields tournaments are drawing now. Waiting a half hour to an hour for several more player to get in makes the pot larger. I have run hundreds of tournaments myself and have played in many hundreds more, so I see both sides.
My main complaint would be the fairness of the tournament. All unknown players should have to show ID whether the tournament is handicapped or not. Here is why. If handicapped you don't want a sleeper stealing the tournament playing way under what his handicap should be.
If it is open (non-handicapped) then there are usually players auctions, and in fairness to bidders they should know who they are bidding on. One Director brought a top player with him to the tournament, put him in under another name, then bought him for $20 in the auction while local favorites brought $100 to $200 who had little chance of beating this guy. Needless to say they robbed the tournament.
So SHOW ID is my #1 suggestion on tournaments now.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
www.cuesmith.com
My main complaint would be the fairness of the tournament. All unknown players should have to show ID whether the tournament is handicapped or not. Here is why. If handicapped you don't want a sleeper stealing the tournament playing way under what his handicap should be.
If it is open (non-handicapped) then there are usually players auctions, and in fairness to bidders they should know who they are bidding on. One Director brought a top player with him to the tournament, put him in under another name, then bought him for $20 in the auction while local favorites brought $100 to $200 who had little chance of beating this guy. Needless to say they robbed the tournament.
So SHOW ID is my #1 suggestion on tournaments now.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
www.cuesmith.com
Great list, Tom!
I'd tweak it only by suggesting that it is okay for the juke box to be on, but the volume should be turned waaaaay down so that it's not much more than elevator-type background music. I think a little music in the background is a good thing.
One other addition, maybe, about breaks: Having only relatively recently stopped smoking (18 months ago, after 36 yrs of 2 packs a day), I can understand players wanting to take a smoke break. I've had to wait up to 10 minutes between games in a match because my opponent wanted to go outside to take a smoke break. I think one 5-minute break, for whatever reason, during a match should be the maximum. Any more than that should be forfeit of a game.
You run great tournaments, Tom.
I'd tweak it only by suggesting that it is okay for the juke box to be on, but the volume should be turned waaaaay down so that it's not much more than elevator-type background music. I think a little music in the background is a good thing.
One other addition, maybe, about breaks: Having only relatively recently stopped smoking (18 months ago, after 36 yrs of 2 packs a day), I can understand players wanting to take a smoke break. I've had to wait up to 10 minutes between games in a match because my opponent wanted to go outside to take a smoke break. I think one 5-minute break, for whatever reason, during a match should be the maximum. Any more than that should be forfeit of a game.
You run great tournaments, Tom.
Just another opinion:
Completely agree with most of what's been said, but especially:
- start on time
- keep the tournament equipment in good shape
- speed up slow players, somehow
- no smoke breaks in the middle of a match
- get more money into the tournaments
Completely agree with most of what's been said, but especially:
- start on time
- keep the tournament equipment in good shape
- speed up slow players, somehow
- no smoke breaks in the middle of a match
- get more money into the tournaments
Taking Breaks during tournament Match
The rule for Breaks during a match are specific.
See www.wpa-pool.com (rules)
1.13 TIME OUT
If time outs are allowed, a player is only allowed to take a time out during his/her turn at the table <snip> In general, each player will be allowed one time out per match, and a maximum of five minutes per time out. <more snipped>
IMO,
Five minutes is enough for any player to take care of business.
Bathroom, smoking, mental anguish water in the face, making a phone call. Wharever, as long as they complete their business in 5 minutes or less, what they do during their break is their business.
The rule for Breaks during a match are specific.
See www.wpa-pool.com (rules)
1.13 TIME OUT
If time outs are allowed, a player is only allowed to take a time out during his/her turn at the table <snip> In general, each player will be allowed one time out per match, and a maximum of five minutes per time out. <more snipped>
IMO,
Five minutes is enough for any player to take care of business.
Bathroom, smoking, mental anguish water in the face, making a phone call. Wharever, as long as they complete their business in 5 minutes or less, what they do during their break is their business.
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I had a couple of more thoughts about this at league last night...
Whoever wins the tournament, there needs to be some recognition. Maybe post the bracket chart for a week with the winner's name in big, bold, red print on it. Something so he can bring his buddies in and show off to them. (and they all can spend money and perhaps sign up themselves for the next tourney). Maybe even give him some kinda specials for the week, or something that makes him a standout. Also, before the next tourney, give the chart to the winner for his home room bragging rights.
It might be nice in this digital age, to also take a photo of the winner with the cash/trophy and post it on the wall and/or website. A little recognition goes a looooonnnng way toward building customer loyalty, imho.
And along this line, create some spectator excitement during the tourney, so those who have lost already have an incentive to stick around and watch (and spend money). Big brackets even, so everyone in the house knows the score. Or maybe announcements about the status of matches, etc....nothing elaborate or expensive, just some excitement generated by someone. This might encourage spouses/friends to come with the players, too (and spend money).
How about giving some cash incentive or prize for bringing new players to the tourney. eg, If someone brought, say, five players with him, he'd get free entry fee or a free hour of pool or something along those lines. It's the players that know others who might come (and spend money).
I loved the idea of calling every player and inviting them...now that's promotion!
Jeff Livingston
Whoever wins the tournament, there needs to be some recognition. Maybe post the bracket chart for a week with the winner's name in big, bold, red print on it. Something so he can bring his buddies in and show off to them. (and they all can spend money and perhaps sign up themselves for the next tourney). Maybe even give him some kinda specials for the week, or something that makes him a standout. Also, before the next tourney, give the chart to the winner for his home room bragging rights.
It might be nice in this digital age, to also take a photo of the winner with the cash/trophy and post it on the wall and/or website. A little recognition goes a looooonnnng way toward building customer loyalty, imho.
And along this line, create some spectator excitement during the tourney, so those who have lost already have an incentive to stick around and watch (and spend money). Big brackets even, so everyone in the house knows the score. Or maybe announcements about the status of matches, etc....nothing elaborate or expensive, just some excitement generated by someone. This might encourage spouses/friends to come with the players, too (and spend money).
How about giving some cash incentive or prize for bringing new players to the tourney. eg, If someone brought, say, five players with him, he'd get free entry fee or a free hour of pool or something along those lines. It's the players that know others who might come (and spend money).
I loved the idea of calling every player and inviting them...now that's promotion!
Jeff Livingston
No way!
I'm a tournament chess player and I categorically dislike the trend toward speeding games up. It happens in chess and pool. I guess you would understand if a chess player thought pool too fast a game. 9 ball is already too fast! Better to turn off the juke box and let the players concentrate.davesyrja said:
chefjeff said:
Hi Jeff,
I had a slightly different twist to the "call the players" idea. A few years ago, I took it upon myself to personally invite players to the $5000 added Joss Tour stop we had here in Rochester at Classic Billiards. Kind of like the unofficial Wendy's guy. As I travelled from event to event, I brought some tour flyers. I made it a point to stop and talk to the players. In the end, our first event had 63 players. The second in the high fifties. The last $5000 added, we had under 50 players. Yes, Mika, Earl, Charlie, Keith, Teddy G, Danny B., Alex P., Karen, Julie and a few other top guns stopped by. Its possible the promotion attempts only kept the "shortstops" from playing. It was a double edged sword. We tried calling, mailing, BD ads, the whole thing. Entries went down. We dropped the added to $2000. None of the big names showed up. Entries dropped to under forty, then under thirty. We're trying one more next April. I'm afraid if we fail to draw a reasonable number of players, it will be our last major event.
Our location is the farthest West the Joss Tour travels. The support our Canadian friends gave has dwindled as the added dropped. Last event, only one attended (thanks to Dan Doerner). If my memory serves me correctly, no one from West of the NY/PA border has attended one of our Joss stops. As I travel now, many of the players who attended one of our events tell me our facilities and staff were among the very best anywhere. What do we do now??????
SUPERSTAR said:Matt Krah is from Delaware. Phil Sherman and Raphael are from outside Philly.SUPERSTAR
Hi Superstar,
Thanks for the post. Raphael attended a couple of Joss events in Syracuse. I was refering to Ohio and West. I would have thought that JR, Shawn, Chris Szuter or any of that group would come East. The Joss pays a lot more than the Viking Tour. The competition however is much stronger.
cardiac kid said:
Hi Cardiac,
That's interesting....did the event slowly die because of the promotion, per se, or was it because the promotion attracted pro players that the "shortstops" thought were unbeatable?
If the latter, then promotion wasn't the real problem, right? I mean, isn't the problem that the professionals are scaring away the other players---or am I missing something here? So the solution would be to keep the pros away or handicap it or......?
We don't have problems like that out here in the "cheap seats," I guess.
Thanks for responding,
Jeff Livingston
cardiac kid said:
AAAAAHHHH! ok...i understand now. You were talking about THAT border.
My mistake.
I think the only Ohio person i ever heard about travelling east to play in a Joss was probably Corey D. playing in Quincy a while back.
Other than that i think your probably right.
SUPERSTAR
whitewolf said:
Speaking as a lecherous old foggie, that is a great promotion
. Only problem is, what do you do next week to bring in the players? No wet tee shirts? No guys around. No free beer? No guys around. If it were that easy, every pool room in the country would be thriving. Many years ago, the pool room we frequented changed management. The owner gave the room to his son. First major change? Very loud music (supposedly for you young folks). Lots of video games (again for the young folk). Then came the "I don't give a damn table care". Guess where that room is now? Gone!!!
Whats needed is on going promotion. Treating players like they matter. Giving back to the people who support your room. Frankly, I don't care if Earl, Charlie, Keith and the rest of them ever set foot in our room again. They aren't the players who will keep the room open. YOU ARE!!!!!!
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