questions about high level play and endurance?

scottycoyote

scottycoyote

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just wondering about the ability of b+ and a players to maintain their level of play

the other night i played for about 6 hours in a ring game with what id rate an a player and maybe a b-......well the next day i was tired. I went back last night to play, and although i was playing well, i was having a hard time really bearing down and focusing.

It seems like there are 2 types of players to me......theres the ones that just play natural and flow, and theres the ones who really have to bear down and concentrate and i seem to be in the 2nd group. I mean sure, there are times where it seems im just messing around and i cant miss and everything rolls perfect and i dont even feel like im trying. But ususally in a money game to play my best i have to be immersed in it, not talking, not joking, really concentrating.
So my question is, am I always going to be this way? Ive only been playing at my current level about 8 months, im borderline A, and i just came off a 3 month layoff due to work. Will i ever get to the point where i can just play and it doesnt take a toll on me mentally? Do some of you guys just feel totally washed the next day after a long session or intense session? Can you play day after day in intense play and it not effect you, or do you have to layoff?
I would like to think that some day I will reach some kind of "zen" state where im at one with the table and blahblahblah............but the side of me with a brain in it says this is a mental game and its always gonna be this way.
any body else been thru this?
 
scottycoyote said:
just wondering about the ability of b+ and a players to maintain their level of play

the other night i played for about 6 hours in a ring game with what id rate an a player and maybe a b-......well the next day i was tired. I went back last night to play, and although i was playing well, i was having a hard time really bearing down and focusing.

It seems like there are 2 types of players to me......theres the ones that just play natural and flow, and theres the ones who really have to bear down and concentrate and i seem to be in the 2nd group. I mean sure, there are times where it seems im just messing around and i cant miss and everything rolls perfect and i dont even feel like im trying. But ususally in a money game to play my best i have to be immersed in it, not talking, not joking, really concentrating.
So my question is, am I always going to be this way? Ive only been playing at my current level about 8 months, im borderline A, and i just came off a 3 month layoff due to work. Will i ever get to the point where i can just play and it doesnt take a toll on me mentally? Do some of you guys just feel totally washed the next day after a long session or intense session? Can you play day after day in intense play and it not effect you, or do you have to layoff?
I would like to think that some day I will reach some kind of "zen" state where im at one with the table and blahblahblah............but the side of me with a brain in it says this is a mental game and its always gonna be this way.
any body else been thru this?
Click to expand...

Ok, this is the difficult part of the leap but something you can try in practice. Just PLAY. Just HIT THE BALLS. Don't give pocketing any real thought. Don't make any sort of measurement or calculation. Decide on what to do and do it.

Trying this out in practice might be best because you risk nothing but table-time. However, you eventually need to learn to do this in a competitive situation. The words/phrases, "Relax", "Let Go", "Zen" all refer to allowing your subconscious to take control. There are basic, rudamentary decisions that you should be consciously aware of but outside of that, all else should be done subconsciously. "Go for the six ball" should be a conscious decision but WHERE to hit the 6-ball should be subconscious. Hit the point that feels right.

You keep doing this and suddenly, everything will feel smooth and without interruption. You'll find yourself playing better than average without exerting yourself. Eventually, the trust widens and you allow your subconscious more reign. When this occurs, the sky is the limit.
 
scottycoyote said:
just wondering about the ability of b+ and a players to maintain their level of play

the other night i played for about 6 hours in a ring game with what id rate an a player and maybe a b-......well the next day i was tired. I went back last night to play, and although i was playing well, i was having a hard time really bearing down and focusing.

It seems like there are 2 types of players to me......theres the ones that just play natural and flow, and theres the ones who really have to bear down and concentrate and i seem to be in the 2nd group. I mean sure, there are times where it seems im just messing around and i cant miss and everything rolls perfect and i dont even feel like im trying. But ususally in a money game to play my best i have to be immersed in it, not talking, not joking, really concentrating.
So my question is, am I always going to be this way? Ive only been playing at my current level about 8 months, im borderline A, and i just came off a 3 month layoff due to work. Will i ever get to the point where i can just play and it doesnt take a toll on me mentally? Do some of you guys just feel totally washed the next day after a long session or intense session? Can you play day after day in intense play and it not effect you, or do you have to layoff?
I would like to think that some day I will reach some kind of "zen" state where im at one with the table and blahblahblah............but the side of me with a brain in it says this is a mental game and its always gonna be this way.
any body else been thru this?
Click to expand...

The short answer is, YES!

What you are experiencing is desireable. This may sound stupid, but I believe that while a player is in the advanced learning stages, to get better they must use more brain power. You're brain is working hard while you're at the table. To improve at this stage, you defintely want it to. The brain needs large amounts of energy to absorb all this activity, to concentrate, plan, recall the strokes and shots necessary to run the layout, etc., and especially to continue to function under pressure. Brains require a lot of energy when under pressure.

As you become more and more experienced, more of your game will be committed to habit. The patterns are more obvious, the thinking process is less taxing (less stressful) and the game becomes a little more relaxed.

I would say, if there is any way you can just "hang loose" a little more at the table, while still continuing to plan, and concentrate, it will remove some of the stress that might impede your performance and cause unnecessary exhaustion.

This is hard to do but should get easier with experience.

Chris
 
TATE said:
The short answer is, YES!

What you are experiencing is desireable. This may sound stupid, but I believe that while a player is in the advanced learning stages, to get better they must use more brain power. You're brain is working hard while you're at the table. To improve at this stage, you defintely want it to. The brain needs large amounts of energy to absorb all this activity, to concentrate, plan, recall the strokes and shots necessary to run the layout, etc., and especially to continue to function under pressure. Brains require a lot of energy when under pressure.

As you become more and more experienced, more of your game will be committed to habit. The patterns are more obvious, the thinking process is less taxing (less stressful) and the game becomes a little more relaxed.

I would say, if there is any way you can just "hang loose" a little more at the table, while still continuing to plan, and concentrate, it will remove some of the stress that might impede your performance and cause unnecessary exhaustion.

This is hard to do but should get easier with experience.

Chris
Click to expand...

I agree very much Chris. There isn't an easy way, the brain gets a heavy work out during any important match. Work it hard and one day soon it will start to become more natural.

I can remember many times of thinking out the game and focusing very hard and then finding myself in dead stroke. I mean I could have chewed nails from grinding in the beginning. For me at least, every time it happened I just got a little better and I allready played at an A + level then. Those last few steps it takes to become a very strong player or pro sure doesn't come easy.

When we first started many of us excelled in leaps and bounds. That rarely happens in later stages, you really have to work for it.

Rod
 
Clear your mind

What your saying is true to a point.I beleave it is not enough preperation for the continuance of the game.My biggest goal to beat was the values of the game.Say day 1 I was shooting race to 100 for $5000 and day 2 I was race to 100 for $1000 (this is untrue ofcorse people do not gamble on pool).I would always slump on the smaller games in the begining and have to fight back to be in the green.One of the best players that ever lived taught me a trick that has seemed to always work for me.At the begining of day 2 or 3 or 4 etc. I find a table where I willnot be shooting! I always take a cueball and hit it slow from spot to spot bouncing off the forerail and parking it back on the spot.I do this for about an 1/2 hour.Dont seem like a long time but a half hour can be a while.Then I do a couple really hard training exercises for about another 1/2 hour.After this my brain seems in tune and clear AND iM READY TO ROCK AND ROLL.You have got to find your own nitch to clear your mind.I know 1 pro player that plays chess.I know another that listens to classical music for a couple hours.Thing is clear your mind and make it fresh.Yesterday was just another day today is the spotlight.I personally think when you have so many hours on the tables your mind is still dropping balls in your sleep.Thing is to give your mind some air.I make it so hard for my mind when I get ready for a match that when I am up to the table its only 9 balls or 100 balls. Easy run compared to what I have practiced a couple hours before.Fresh and easy.Good luck and dont get your mind all worked up over this.its just a few balls on the table easy run always.
 
Rodd said:
I agree very much Chris. There isn't an easy way, the brain gets a heavy work out during any important match. Work it hard and one day soon it will start to become more natural.

I can remember many times of thinking out the game and focusing very hard and then finding myself in dead stroke. I mean I could have chewed nails from grinding in the beginning. For me at least, every time it happened I just got a little better and I allready played at an A + level then. Those last few steps it takes to become a very strong player or pro sure doesn't come easy.

When we first started many of us excelled in leaps and bounds. That rarely happens in later stages, you really have to work for it.

Rod
Click to expand...

Rod,

One time I was playing this game practicing bank shots for several hours. I was totally exhausted and by the end of the game, I was missing more bank shots than I ever missed - I mean straight in easy banks. I gave up and went to bed disgusted. I woke up and for about two weeks I made every bank I looked at!

Chris
 
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TATE said:
The short answer is, YES!

What you are experiencing is desireable. This may sound stupid, but I believe that while a player is in the advanced learning stages, to get better they must use more brain power. You're brain is working hard while you're at the table. To improve at this stage, you defintely want it to. The brain needs large amounts of energy to absorb all this activity, to concentrate, plan, recall the strokes and shots necessary to run the layout, etc., and especially to continue to function under pressure. Brains require a lot of energy when under pressure.

As you become more and more experienced, more of your game will be committed to habit. The patterns are more obvious, the thinking process is less taxing (less stressful) and the game becomes a little more relaxed.

I would say, if there is any way you can just "hang loose" a little more at the table, while still continuing to plan, and concentrate, it will remove some of the stress that might impede your performance and cause unnecessary exhaustion.

This is hard to do but should get easier with experience.

Chris
Click to expand...

Well, I was going to post in this thread until I read this post, which I agree with completely. Well said, Tate.
 
Take some of your emotions out of your play... This helps lesson your fatigue when playing for long periods of time...
 
JustPlay said:
Take some of your emotions out of your play... This helps lesson your fatigue when playing for long periods of time...
Click to expand...

I've heard the very same thing. They are very diruptive to the sub-subconscious and can be draining on your energy. Good post.
 
JustPlay said:
Take some of your emotions out of your play... This helps lesson your fatigue when playing for long periods of time...
Click to expand...


i think ive already done this for the most part.....after reading "pleasures of small motions" i learned to refocus on why i play pool, for the fun of it. I dont play because i want to be better than everybody else, when i lose I dont feel like im less than anyone else. I guess what Im saying is, I dont feel emotionally drained, a pool set isnt some kind of emotional roller coaster for me, smiling and happy when im doing well, sulking and slamming the rack around when im doing poorly.......im the same throughout. So the fatigue isnt emotional....its just the draining effect of constant, sustained, high level concentration that im talking about.
I like Judes answer, im hoping as i see more and more situations I will be able to go on automatic pilot more and more as a result. Although im no newcomer to this game (playing off and on over 10 years) I still have plenty to see and learn. Its like being married......i love this game but i gotta learn how to live with it lol.
 
If there is a secret to pool (and there isn't), it is finding the balance between conscious and subconscious processes during play... the balance between shooting with ease but without carelessness. Between being emotionally invested, but not letting emotions inhibit one's game. It's a very delicate negotiation...

The one thing that struck me about Efren is just how *comfortable* he is out there. At the Derby, he was shooting non-stop and never showed signs of fatigue. I was more tired watching, than he was playing. He was in his natural element.

Other top players seem to grind out every shot. A very different way of approaching the game... I'm thinking Archer, or Jeremy Jones.

As for negative emotions during a match, I think one of the reasons it's so difficult to manage them is because pool is *by definition*, a game of imperfections. Two days ago I sat to watch Sigel's 150 and out against Zuglan once more. I decided to pay attention specifically to his routine and conduct at the table. One thing that was striking is that he was dissatisfied (shaking his head) on a good 40% of his shots!

It then struck me that loving pool is also loving imperfection. It's taking joy in recovering from these imperfections...

I have played games of chess in tournaments without making a single inaccuracy. In chess, that is a realistic expectation once your rating hits about 2200. But the competitive element in pool (even at the top pro level) is so much harsher... Imperfection is of the essence, and it is up to the player at the table to deal with them constructively. For me, that is easier said than done.

Sorry for my rambling. Great thread!
 
lewdo26 said:
If there is a secret to pool (and there isn't), it is finding the balance between conscious and subconscious processes during play... the balance between shooting with ease but without carelessness. Between being emotionally invested, but not letting emotions inhibit one's game. It's a very delicate negotiation...

The one thing that struck me about Efren is just how *comfortable* he is out there. At the Derby, he was shooting non-stop and never showed signs of fatigue. I was more tired watching, than he was playing. He was in his natural element.

Other top players seem to grind out every shot. A very different way of approaching the game... I'm thinking Archer, or Jeremy Jones.

As for negative emotions during a match, I think one of the reasons it's so difficult to manage them is because pool is *by definition*, a game of imperfections. Two days ago I sat to watch Sigel's 150 and out against Zuglan once more. I decided to pay attention specifically to his routine and conduct at the table. One thing that was striking is that he was dissatisfied (shaking his head) on a good 40% of his shots!

It then struck me that loving pool is also loving imperfection. It's taking joy in recovering from these imperfections...

I have played games of chess in tournaments without making a single inaccuracy. In chess, that is a realistic expectation once your rating hits about 2200. But the competitive element in pool (even at the top pro level) is so much harsher... Imperfection is of the essence, and it is up to the player at the table to deal with them constructively. For me, that is easier said than done.

Sorry for my rambling. Great thread!
Click to expand...



Excellent observation on your behalf.....
 
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