Questions for Mike with FargoRate

[Tin Man]

Hey guys! Mike Page from Fargo Rate is going to join me for a podcast and I was curious if there were questions or topics you wanted discussed. I can’t promise we’ll get to everything but I just wanted a feel of what people want to dig into.

I know Mike is a member and contributor here on AZB so it’s not like you can’t ask him any question you want. But some things don’t fit well in short written responses.

Let me know and thank you!

 

[imagemker]

Hey Tin Man, an easy one. How do we blend games in our rating, if we are in the sytem twice? In my case I just started playing again, and have some tournaments as Michael, but my previous games are under "Mike"

 

[Nick B]

Two questions.
1. How long before you can sort by Country? This way for example you could look up Top Polish player etc.
2. Fargorate costs money to operate. How do you see the funding model work long term? Advertising? League Fees? Premium Accounts?

Thx in advance.

 

[VVP]

What is the Fargo Rate of the median player of those who have been active over the last 3 years?

What is the Fargo Rate of the median player of those who have been active over the last 3 years only for tournaments played on 9 footers?

Not sure if they can drill down to the level asked in the questions, but the reason why I am asking is that Fargo claims it's database contains about 300,000 players and the median player Fargo is 500. I find this difficult to believe because I know some really good players who have been playing for at least 10 years on 9 footers and they are still below 500.

 

[garczar]

What is the Fargo Rate of the median player of those who have been active over the last 3 years?

What is the Fargo Rate of the median player of those who have been active over the last 3 years only for tournaments played on 9 footers?

Not sure if they can drill down to the level asked in the questions, but the reason why I am asking is that Fargo claims it's database contains about 300,000 players and the median player Fargo is 500. I find this difficult to believe because I know some really good players who have been playing for at least 10 years on 9 footers and they are still below 500.

Fargo doesn't separate FR's by table size. I think there should be two FR's myself. I know players whose game is nowhere near the same on a big table.

 

[VVP]

Fargo doesn't separate FR's by table size. I think there should be two FR's myself. I know players whose game is nowhere near the same on a big table.

Yes, I know. I was just hoping that there was some way to parse the database, but realize it might not be possible. I was just curious.

 

[justnum]

Find out which areas have the most new players.

I keep playing the same people and it gets boring.

Where is the new talent that is strong and where is the new talent of beginners?

Thanks for doing this.

 

[David in FL]

I think this has been answered before, but can he, or someone here confirm that one packet is now included in FargoRate?

 

[DeadStick]

Hey Tin Man, an easy one. How do we blend games in our rating, if we are in the sytem twice? In my case I just started playing again, and have some tournaments as Michael, but my previous games are under "Mike"

I can answer that, since I was in the same situation.

Send an email to support@fargorate.com describing your issue with the ids of both of your acct, and they’ll straighten it out.

 

[DeadStick]

Fargorate costs money to operate. How do you see the funding model work long term? Advertising? League Fees? Premium Accounts?

They already have a premium subscription in the iOS app for $12.99/yr. I’m happy to support them, and think that just over $1/month is too cheap here. I would pay $50/yr if the premium features were compelling enough.

 

[DeadStick]

I know some really good players who have been playing for at least 10 years on 9 footers and they are still below 500.

What’s your definition of “really good”?

If they have enough matches in the system, their rating is accurate. If they want to get over 500, they have to beat more 500+ players. Or completely dominate players in the 450-499 range. Or barely lose to 600+ players regularly.

It’s not rocket science - it’s just math based on actual matches.

 

[Gatz]

Hey guys! Mike Page from Fargo Rate is going to join me for a podcast and I was curious if there were questions or topics you wanted discussed. I can’t promise we’ll get to everything but I just wanted a feel of what people want to dig into.

I know Mike is a member and contributor here on AZB so it’s not like you can’t ask him any question you want. But some things don’t fit well in short written responses.

Let me know and thank you!

Yeah....When are we going to see new features added to the outdated app? So many good features could be added.

 

[VVP]

What’s your definition of “really good”?

They will beat a Fargo 500 who plays only on 7 footers one- handed ... how about that

I am talking about people playing in good tournaments like the Joss.

 

[hang-the-9]

Fargo doesn't separate FR's by table size. I think there should be two FR's myself. I know players whose game is nowhere near the same on a big table.

It averages out, there are not many good players that don't play on both tables and the difference is pretty minor, although it may be enough to loose by. And keep in mind this is something that affects most players, so if a 300 plays a 400 on a different table, their skill is different together, so stays the same ratio. Similar to playing different games. At maybe the 500 level, 8 ball, 9 ball and 10 ball skills are pretty equal. Some have also good 14.1 and one pocket skill. At 600+ they are even closer to skill level.

I remember someone posted a while ago how they played better earlier than later so their Fargo should go down at night LOL There is just no way that a rating scale can adjust or take into account every single variation out there for humans and their personal ability, they just do an average of what the majority seen in statistics end up showing.

How about pocket size, table brand, if you have a new shaft or tip, if you were in a fight with the wife an hour ago, if you had 4 drinks or 1, if the cloth is fast or slow or new or ripped or has a spill on it? All those affect how the players play, but no way to start adding everything into the system. I would bet pocket size has a larger affect on wins than table size as does the speed of the table. If I played on a 9 footer and a 7 footer but the speed of the shot was the same because the 7 footer has slower cloth, that would bring up my 7 ft game by a ball easily, so it's not just the size that is the issue, maybe the cloth speed is.

 

[DeadStick]

Not a question, but a few suggestions to make the app and website more compelling:

1. Make all match scores public, so each player has a data-filled profile page that shows their entire history, game type, event type, opponent, etc. Currently, players can “opt in” to make their matches public, but very few players even know about that option, and even fewer do it. If privacy is a concern, make profiles visible only to logged-in members. Otherwise, I don’t think it’s a privacy issue, since the matches themselves are played in public.

2. Improve the search engine so you can search by name, match venue, event, city, state, country, or radius to a postal code, allow filtering the results by rating range, and allow sorting the results by rating, name, or distance. The current search by name is very limited, and cuts off after the first page of results. Results should be paged or auto-flowed when scrolled to to the bottom.

3. Improve the rating history charts, allowing a dynamic time frame and showing the rating when a point on the chart is tapped. Allow adding other players to the same chart so you can compare historical trends directly.

4. When data comes in, try to get the meta data from the operators like table size, game type (8, 9, or 10 ball, one pocket, 14.1, etc), and event type (league, small tournament, large tournament, etc). Show at least the % breakdowns for each of these meta data categories on the profile pages, and for each match. It should also be possible to show a separate FR for each player by table size and game type.

5. Make the app more social by showing follower and following counts and names, and allow DMs so we can reach out to other players for matchups or just to make friends. Allow me to opt-in to get notifications on new match scores for all players I follow.

6. Have a home page news feed in the app that shows latest match results for all the players I follow, and show me suggestions of who I may want to follow.

7. Offer the ability for TOs to advertise upcoming tournaments in the app, filtered by geography and rating, as long as they’re reporting data back. Send notifications on these tournaments by default, but allow players to opt-out. Give players an easy way to search a tournament calendar filtered by geography and date range. Put tournament announcements in the news feed as well.

8. Might be too much to ask, but if operators could include a player’s email and/or mobile number when submitting data, then players could be contacted and encouraged to install the app. If that’s too much to ask, give operators handouts to give to each player with a QR code and encourage them to promote the app.

I’ve been a startup coder and founder in the web and mobile app space since ‘98, so I know how much work these features would take. They’re the low hanging fruit that I would be working on first, in the order above. Back when I was still coding, this feature list would be about 5-6 months of full-time work for me. I’ve done them all many times over.

I believe FargoRate has been an important part of the games growth in recent years, and it’s in prime position to be an even bigger driver of growth if the app is built out with compelling and social features like these.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Mike stated about 10 years ago one of his long term goals was (paraphrasing): "I want people when discussing player speeds to state player xyz is 650 speed, player abc is 550 speed, etc." Does he feel this has been accomplished? Does he have any emotion when he hears player speak this way?

What are the current long term goals of FargoRate? Is there any consideration of starting a tournament/tour series?

Please don't let the app become stale. It has not been updated since it came out it seems. It will turn into the DCC tournament scheduling system, you see what happened with that.

What does the staff look like? Is this a full time job for a few people? Is it a hobby? Does Mike keep a full time dayjob and do this on the side? Does Mike see this company growing into dozens of people? Would he want it to?

Is there still some manual entry going on? Some big events don't use any of the popular brackets. None of the MR events do. None of the Qatar events do, etc. There are lots of 1on1 streaming action challenges coming out of the Philippines and live-streamed on youtube (or Sharks). Do any of those get input?

Has Mike considered expanding beyond pool into other sports?

Could there be deep dives into the data to show family relationships, and "how far does the apple fall from the tree". In my personal local experience, I've only seen the son be very close to the dad's speed.

Could there be a deep dive into the data to show "height charts" like the Dr's office has when you are a kid. If a 13 year old has been playing 3 years, and is a 450 fargo, what will his fargo be when he is 19? Etc.

 

[garczar]

It averages out, there are not many good players that don't play on both tables and the difference is pretty minor, although it may be enough to loose by. And keep in mind this is something that affects most players, so if a 300 plays a 400 on a different table, their skill is different together, so stays the same ratio. Similar to playing different games. At maybe the 500 level, 8 ball, 9 ball and 10 ball skills are pretty equal. Some have also good 14.1 and one pocket skill. At 600+ they are even closer to skill level.

I remember someone posted a while ago how they played better earlier than later so their Fargo should go down at night LOL There is just no way that a rating scale can adjust or take into account every single variation out there for humans and their personal ability, they just do an average of what the majority seen in statistics end up showing.

How about pocket size, table brand, if you have a new shaft or tip, if you were in a fight with the wife an hour ago, if you had 4 drinks or 1, if the cloth is fast or slow or new or ripped or has a spill on it? All those affect how the players play, but no way to start adding everything into the system. I would bet pocket size has a larger affect on wins than table size as does the speed of the table. If I played on a 9 footer and a 7 footer but the speed of the shot was the same because the 7 footer has slower cloth, that would bring up my 7 ft game by a ball easily, so it's not just the size that is the issue, maybe the cloth speed is.

It is enough to lose by, see it all the time. Most of the better(550+) players in my area play almost all pool on a bb. When faced with a 9ft(if they'll even play. Chickenshits) they don't play near their bb speed. I don't know where you live but in the Midwest almost all pool, except 1p, is on a bb. A lot of players wouldn't get out of the electric chair to play on a 9ft. They're scared and it shows when they play on one.

 

[Justaneng]

"What has been some of the surprises with the data, for instance, have you seen some small towns with a much higher than expected number of 600-speed players?"

 

[DeadStick]

They will beat a Fargo 500 who plays only on 7 footers one- handed ... how about that

Apparently not in matches reported to Fargo, though.

 

[DeadStick]

Mike stated about 10 years ago one of his long term goals was (paraphrasing): "I want people when discussing player speeds to state player xyz is 650 speed, player abc is 550 speed, etc." Does he feel this has been accomplished?

I believe that goal has been accomplished, which is huge. So much more could be done with the app, though, now that FR has become a de-facto standard and benchmark.