Quick 8 Ball shot question:

M

MacGyver

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
given the table:

CueTable Help



You are stripes and playing against a pro, so your a bit nervous but have been in pretty decent stroke.

Do you take the 12 which is nearly straight in but granted a long shot and risk selling out the 3(again playing pro level), or would you play the bank/safe and bank the 11 drawing the cue ball to A?

Personally I was about to play the 12 and then second guessed when someone pointed out the draw safe.... I shot it and just jabbed at it and left it at D instead of A(and missed less than an inch at B), leaving the side of the 3 open which was enough to lose....(via the corner bank)

Any thoughts? I think if I redid I'd take the long shot but perhaps the safe was the correct choice....

later down the match went hill-hill but they broke and ran out .. :(
 
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I would try to lightly carom the cue ball off the left side of the 11 and the 8 pushing both to the rail and hopefully leaving the cue behing the 10 on rail.

Even if he ends up with a look at the 3, will be difficult to bank the 3 and get a shot at the 8.
 
MacGyver said:
Do you take the 12 which is nearly straight in but granted a long shot and risk selling out the 3?
Click to expand...

Yes, I would, within a heart beat.

If you're in rhythm is in sync, let yourself go.

It's hard to stop someone who's zoned.
 
It depends whether the 11 passes the 8 into the corner. If it does, I say trust in your stroke, play the 12, and finish the easy out from there. If you're really playing a pro, just letting them back to the table at all puts you at quite a disadvantage.

But if the 11 doesn't go, there's no reward in shooting the 12, since I don't see a high-percentage way to deal with the 11. Your risk/reward ratio is way off kilter. So I'd play the safe you tried, except I'd hit the 11 at a different angle so I'm drawing the cue ball to try and freeze (or get as close as possible) to the back of the 10, rather than just sit behind the 10.

-Andrew
 
My .02 cents

The 11 can't be made past the 8 in uptable corner, so shooting the 12 is
pretty much a 'No future' shot as I call them. You shot the right shot, just
didn't shoot it right.

If you hook him, leaves him real hard jump-bank, even harder for shape on the 8, plus you open up the 11, and your chances of running out after he
misses are a lot greater.

Playing a safety with more balls on the table is much easier than later on
when you might only have 1 ball and the 8 ball, plus leaves more options
for you after they shoot.

Play for the game, not the shot (another one of my lil sayings).
 
I play the two-way on the 11 because it's nearly dead in the side, and the safe is automatic, and I need separation between the 11 and the 8 in order to get out. The 12 blocks the jump-cross-side on the 3, and if I draw my rock just a little, the 12 also blocks the easy hit on the 3 toward the top right corner. If the 11 goes, I run out. If not, I'm happy to let my opponent, regardless of who they are, spin-kick at a ball 14 feet away and 2 feet from the hole, or shoot a multi-rail kick, or try the "jump-over-a-ball-thats-4-inches-away-at-100-miles-an-hour-to-hit-a-backward-cut-bank-on-the-3-to-the-bottom-right-corner" shot. Seriously, they'll have to kick at it, and there's no guarantee that they won't be hooked by the 10 even if they do kick it in.
 
The safe is the shot

The safe is definitely the shot here, regardless of whether you are playing a pro or an average Joe. If you opt to take the 12 first, you must shoot a jacked up shot just to try and pull shape on the 10 to either break out the 11 or get shape in the corner.

Whenever I look at a tough shot or safe, I always judge whether it is better to over hit or under hit the shot. In this case, I think that it is better to over hit this safe, if you don't get right behind the 10. From the top side of the table, the side bank is blocked by the 12 and if you hit the 11 too hard, you block the long rail bank, too soft and you block the log rail cut. If you pull back the cue ball way past the 10, then you leave him shooting jacked up on the rail, which makes it much tougher to pull shape on the 8.
 
MacGyver said:
given the table:

CueTable Help



You are stripes and playing against a pro, so your a bit nervous but have been in pretty decent stroke.

Do you take the 12 which is nearly straight in but granted a long shot and risk selling out the 3(again playing pro level), or would you play the bank/safe and bank the 11 drawing the cue ball to A?

Personally I was about to play the 12 and then second guessed when someone pointed out the draw safe.... I shot it and just jabbed at it and left it at D instead of A(and missed less than an inch at B), leaving the side of the 3 open which was enough to lose....(via the corner bank)

Any thoughts? I think if I redid I'd take the long shot but perhaps the safe was the correct choice....

later down the match went hill-hill but they broke and ran out .. :(
Click to expand...

Even if you're in dead punch and you can't miss, there is no reason to shoot the 12. It doesn't give you position on the 10 to break out the 11. You have a very good and almost automatic safe already, which is what you attempted but didn't execute it well. Playing the safe is the right shot. If you make the 12, you probably won't win from there.
 
I'm really sorry for the error, I was having troubles with getting the C on the table(for some reason it disappears and I had to use the D AND the C...

The 11 DOES GO in the corner... I realize that on the table I showed it didnt... but the 11 did not need to be broken out, it went.

Also, the 12 is blocking the 3's bank to side.(the jump bank is hard as it would have to be a jump bank back to corner..)

If the 12 is made, then the table is run out, I'm pretty confident about that.

Thanks for the advice, I hope that the added info of the 11 going helps or changes things...
 
Depends on your confidence level in making the 12 at that point in the match and the game. If you are 80%+ on the 12 shot, shoot it.

At my level. shooting off the rail in a pressure situation, I still shoot the safe. If you miss the 12, you lose. With a good safe you come back to the table with perhaps a more makable shot and chance to run out.
 
MacGyver said:
I'm really sorry for the error, I was having troubles with getting the C on the table(for some reason it disappears and I had to use the D AND the C...

The 11 DOES GO in the corner... I realize that on the table I showed it didnt... but the 11 did not need to be broken out, it went.

Also, the 12 is blocking the 3's bank to side.(the jump bank is hard as it would have to be a jump bank back to corner..)

If the 12 is made, then the table is run out, I'm pretty confident about that.

Thanks for the advice, I hope that the added info of the 11 going helps or changes things...
Click to expand...

This is a no-brainer run out. The shot on the 12 is NOT difficult. It is only 3-4 feet between the CB & 12-ball. If you have ANY stroke at all, a stop shot can be achieved with almost a lag speed draw stroke. That leaves you an easy angle on the 11, and the 10 in the opposite corner, for easy topspin position on the 8, in the same pocket as the 11. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott, that is what I thought...

The situation was a league game(I am about an APA 5/6), I go to shoot the 12 thinking its a no brainer.

Our team 7 yells "do you want to talk about it" and then comes over to tell me to play the safe(I had already ran out 2 games that night so my stroke wasnt in trouble I dont believe).

I defer to his thinking and thats when I admittedly don't put enough draw on and leave the sliver of 3 open for the guy to run out.

In *my* mind I think the 12 was the shot to make since it was an easy runout.

I'm just wondering if I am correct in my thinking..... I can see that yes the 12 is a sellout if I miss but it was a straight it shot practiaclly....
 
Why play to bank the 11 ? If it goes in, and the CB goes to the position intended for the hook, then you'll have a harder shot next.

If the pockets are generous and the table doesn't roll a good long straight shooter should go for the 12. With tighter pockets and if jacking up a bit is required the odds start dropping on that shot.

But the safe looks attractive to me. I reckon 90% of the time you'd end up with an easier out after the player shoots to hit the 3 from the hook.
 
If the 11 goes by the 8, then that changes everything. You have to shoot the 12 in that situation, and be happy that your pro opponent left you that easy of an out. The 12 goes in the side as well if you want a shorter shot or are afraid of rolloff.
 
CColin is dead on ...

Colin Colenso said:
Why play to bank the 11 ? If it goes in, and the CB goes to the position intended for the hook, then you'll have a harder shot next.

If the pockets are generous and the table doesn't roll a good long straight shooter should go for the 12. With tighter pockets and if jacking up a bit is required the odds start dropping on that shot.

But the safe looks attractive to me. I reckon 90% of the time you'd end up with an easier out after the player shoots to hit the 3 from the hook.
Click to expand...

Colin has it right ...I like guys that always try to play 2 way shots, because they invariably mess up on both. If you are going to play a safety, stick with it, and shoot the shot for the safety. If you are hitting another ball first, as in this case, just position the ball for a later turn,
and do NOT shoot it to make it, shoot it to NOT make it.

Kind of like when you are setting an opponent up in Chess to take his
queen... lol Let me ask you a question, which of these do you have
more often ... Unstoppable Offense or Excellent Defense?
 
Colin Colenso said:
Why play to bank the 11 ?
Click to expand...

If the 11 didn't go by the 8, then I would consider it a viable option. Sure, you wouldn’t have any hangers from pos A (unless you forgot to draw it and left the 10 straight in, lol), but you wouldn't have anything extremely difficult, either. To me, it’s a classic example of risk vs. reward.

If a player doesn't feel confident about getting out from pos A, then they don't have to try to make the bank. I personally go for it because I like my odds from pos A, and, if successful, I play my favorite leave... the other guy in his chair :D
 
Snapshot9 said:
Colin has it right ...I like guys that always try to play 2 way shots, because they invariably mess up on both. If you are going to play a safety, stick with it, and shoot the shot for the safety. If you are hitting another ball first, as in this case, just position the ball for a later turn,
and do NOT shoot it to make it, shoot it to NOT make it.

Kind of like when you are setting an opponent up in Chess to take his
queen... lol Let me ask you a question, which of these do you have
more often ... Unstoppable Offense or Excellent Defense?
Click to expand...


That depends greatly on the level of play, though. People who take two shots that are already low-percentage (for them) and try to combine them into one shot are obviously going to have problems. Personally, two-way shots have been very good to me, and I shoot a lot of them. Especially if one half of the shot is nearly wired, as in this example. Again, this is all based on the first diagram, which, as we now know, is inaccurate. The 12 ball is my preferred shot in the revised diagram.

I do think, however, that a lot of top players would tell you that the two-way shot is one of the sweetest things known to man.
 
how bout this?

START(
%Cf8E1%Hl4Z8%Jl0T5%Kk0X8%L_2T4%Pq5O8%Q`1T0%Rk3R5%Sl9Z1%Ti5^1
%U_6N6%VC2O5%Wf2Y5%Xj9T2%Yk1S7%Zf2M5%[i7X4%\`4N4%_D2P0%`_3S4
%ap7O7%bf5N4%ci7[3%dj4Y3
)END

Cut the 12 into the side, go to the end rail and then back down, play the 11 into the corner past the 8, and then the 10 into the same corner, and then the 8 into the same as the last two.
Hey, if I am instroke and feeling it, that isn't a hard out so i damn sure am not going to risk letting you back to the table. I will go for the win. If for some unforseen reason I can't get shape on the 11, or the 10 after making the 12 into the side, then I can play safe. But I don't see much need to here. Remember, he is a PRO, more than likely he will hit his ball from any saftey you leave him, and you might not like the return shot you get (if you get back to the table at all). If you have a chance to win that game, TAKE IT. Don't Puss out, cause he will run you out.
 
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My planned runout(before intervention from teammate) was:

CueTable Help



I was planning this as I could land practically anywhere from the 12 and make the 11 and still play the 10 in either pocket either drawing or sliding into position on the 8.


As I said, Personally I would have gone for the 12 runout, but then again right now my weak spot is strategy/knowledge, and I am wondering in this case which was the right move.

I'd say I'm about 90%-95% on the 12, and I *should* be about 90% on the safety bank, except I was on an unfamiler table(short) and I overcompensated, and due to the mental issue of having rythm interuppted and then playing a shot I wasnt sure of I messed up my draw(I'm not blaming team at all though, any mental issues are MY problem...)

I just know I'm going to come against this shot in the future where its either a pretty jam up safety or a long table length shot, which I should play.

I'm also trying to figure it if was my teammates thinking I was going to dog the 12 or whether the safe/bank was *actually* the better shot to play...
 
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