Quiting Winner

Opie said:
O.k., tonight I gambled with a guy that I have played many times before. Anyway, I was playing pretty poorly and got down like 12 games. We played for a while and I fought and clawed my way back to being only 2 games down. Then all of a sudden he breaks his cue down and says he's done. I was like, wtf? He says we could play one game double or nothing and like a dumbass I said yes and ended up losing that rack. But the last rack aside, don't you guys think it's messed up to quit winner on somebody like that? I mean I played my ass off trying to get back to even and then when I'm 2 games away he breaks down his cue. I've played him alot before, won probably 85%, but I've never quit winner on him or anybody else I've played. I just think it's kinda cheap. What do you guys think?
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If you never quit winner I suspect you kept playing until you quit loser a few times. Casinos stay in business for precisely that reason. As others have said, the best way is to set some ground rules before you start playing. Since you didn't do that would you have felt better if he said I gotta go after this game, I'd be glad to meet you next week and give you a chance to win your money back? If instead of making a comeback you had kept losing and gone down 50 games, would you have insisted he keep playing until you get even?

If you aren't going to establish some rules ahead of time my advice would be to accept whatever happens, otherwise it sounds like you are whining.
 
You should be happy to give some money, that just ensures that he will be back for more since he thinks he can beat you. Just think of it as an investment, you give him some money, but your reward will be greater in the end.
 
"If you never quit winner I suspect you kept playing until you quit loser a few times. Casinos stay in business for precisely that reason."


I have to quibble. Casinos stay in business because they never make an irrational decision. Gamblers do. Casinos play with a house edge always. They play until they go broke or make millions. Usually they do well. Often their losses aren't strictly gambling losses. Gamblers OTOH quit when they are slightly ahead to "quit winners", but will go off for everything they own when they lose. But they always play at a disadvantage so it doesn't matter in the end. If your goal is to make money, you must always play with the edge. If your goal is gambling to improve, have fun, establish your status for ego purposes, etc... you can think about irrelevant stuff like quitting winners or who is ahead this week and such. If you want to make money you just need to gamble with an edge and get as much money into play with the advantage as possible. Pool is not always the best for this as I have posted elsewhere. But it can be good, just know the reasons you play.
 
The ONLY rules when you gamble are those that are agreed on before playing. Sure, there is the "code fo ethics" that says you don't quit winner. I hate it when someone quits winner on me. That pretty much kills their action with me. But, there is NOTHING I an do about it other than file it away and cut them off. Now, if I am beating a guy regularly and he quits winner once then I would be more inclined to let it pass.

Most of the time if I am ahead and I want to quit then I will ask if we can set a time or a game limit on playing. Or I will offer to make a date to continue the game. Lately, I have begun setting a game limit before we startt playing. Say I want to play for $20 a game; I often will say something like let's agree to play 20 games and then adjust if needed. This way I know I could lose no more than $400 and I have 20 games to get ahead. This has worked succesfully on several occassions. Both of us know before hand that there is a certain amount that "can" be won. Anything in between is then acceptable. This works for me - maybe some of you can use it.

Otherwise, if I am playing by the game - anything can happen.

John
 
I prefer to play until somebody is broke or the poolroom closes. It dosen't matter if it is me or the other guy, I like to win, but sometimes it goes the other way to. That's why I rarely gamble anymore,everybody wants to play for an hour or two, and everybody else wants to play a race to 7 for a wooden nickel.
 
Thanks for all the responses and opinions. I started this thread the other night when I had just gotten back from the ph and was still kinda pissed. I now feel that it was kinda a cry-baby type thing to do. I apologize for pissing and moaning about my personal situation on a public forum. I still do feel that quiting winner is kinda cheap, but that's my own opinion and everybody is entitled to thier own. Thanks.
 
Opie said:
I still do feel that quiting winner is kinda cheap, but that's my own opinion and everybody is entitled to thier own. Thanks.
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I understand you were upset, but I have only one question: what do you do, when you're winning, you play until you lose ?

If you think like this, you'll always end up losing or breaking even. So, what happens if two such players gamble ? Both think it's cheap to win anything, so I'd say they play as long as it takes to break even, eh ? Doesn't make any sense to me... if you gamble, there is going to be a winner and a loser or you end up even, in which case the house is the winner with table time :) Cheap thing is not to give any chance to your opponent to win the (not his) money back or playing/losing for several hours and then demanding a double or nothing over a ridiculously short set.

Not looking to stir things up, just my two cents.
 
JPB said:
(snip)

Second, if you EVER catch yourself saying to yourself "He's got to give me a shot at my money back..." stop right there and rethink. It isn't your money. It is his. The decision is whether he wants to give you a shot at his money. It is dangerous to think of lost money as your money for a lot of reasons. Gambling isn't an entitlement like welfare. ;)
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tap tap tap, JPB...that explains it all.

YOUR money became HIS money. So, you can't get back YOUR money, cuz it's already gone. Now, you could get some of HIS money if he continued to play, but there's no reason he has to give you a chance at HIS money. To think this, is irrational.

If you're gonna gamble/wager, this concept had better be in your mind or you'll cause yourself a lot of unnecessary suffering.

Now, go back and kick his ass!

Jeff Livingston
 
mjantti said:
I understand you were upset, but I have only one question: what do you do, when you're winning, you play until you lose ?
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When I'm winning I'll play until I beat the guy so bad HE wants to quit. As far as whenever I'm losing, I have a cutoff point at which I'll quit. When I played the other night I hadn't reached that point yet. I would think that most, if not all, players have a cutoff point when they're losing.
 
JPB said:
"If you never quit winner I suspect you kept playing until you quit loser a few times. Casinos stay in business for precisely that reason."


I have to quibble. Casinos stay in business because they never make an irrational decision. Gamblers do. Casinos play with a house edge always. They play until they go broke or make millions. Usually they do well. Often their losses aren't strictly gambling losses. Gamblers OTOH quit when they are slightly ahead to "quit winners", but will go off for everything they own when they lose. But they always play at a disadvantage so it doesn't matter in the end. If your goal is to make money, you must always play with the edge. If your goal is gambling to improve, have fun, establish your status for ego purposes, etc... you can think about irrelevant stuff like quitting winners or who is ahead this week and such. If you want to make money you just need to gamble with an edge and get as much money into play with the advantage as possible. Pool is not always the best for this as I have posted elsewhere. But it can be good, just know the reasons you play.
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Of course you are absolutely correct. Casinos stay in business because they have an edge (on most people). I used to use a system called Hi-Opt I. I combined that with a win/loss limit. If I reached either I walked, didn't matter how long it took to get there. A lot of people won't leave after 45 minutes if they are winnning because they don't really go to the casino to win, they go for the atmosphere and excitement. I didn't make a ton of money, but long term I did make money at the casino.
 
The way i always quit is to make sure i let the guy know that i plan on quiting long before i actually quit. Generally the farther I'm up, the more warning i have to give. I've never had a problem quitting when i am ahead as long as i give the other guy fair warning, and a fair chance to win his money back. For example, i was playing a guy $20 a game and got up to $60 pretty quick. My girlfriend started bitching that she wanted to leave, so since we had only played 3 games, i told him i only had 3 games left in me. We could bet whatever he wanted, but i was going to leave in three games. We played 1 more for $20 and i won, so he upped the bet to $40 and won the next one. So we played 1 more at $40 and I won. Finished with $80 but gave him a fair chace to win his money back, we shook hands, and i left. No problems. Well actually there is one problem, he hasn't showed up for a tournament since and he won't gamble anymore. I always hate it when loudmouth bar players run thier mouths off, then you beat them, and they'll never play you again. In my town we have 3 tournament or poolhall players, and about a 100 bar rules, bar players. The 100 always want to run thier mouths, but everyone knows the best bar player is generally a C or D player.
 
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