Race to 7?

Grady

Pro Player
We need someone who can deal with TV. Can you think of a sport besides pool where the TV matches pr games are shortened to ludicrous lengths? I can't.
I wouldn't watch a single game of football if the contests were 10 minutes long. How bout' basketball being a race to 7 buckets?
On top of the match being a race to 7 in NYC this week the tables were vin-tage BCA "loose".The pockets were cavernous.
Just some random observations- - - -
 
Grady,
A very accurate observation; you are preaching to the choir. I think that race to 7 may be a good idea for paper/rock/scissors, but little else. At Derby City this year, it looked like anyone could beat anyone - it seemed like an exhibition not a competitive sport. The outcome is linked mainly to the luck of the break (and the resulting leave). The race to 300 straight pool however, was an epic struggle - much more enjoyable for me.

P.S. - How long will it be before T.V. realizes that skill is not necessarily rewarded in 9 - ball; at that point they will initiate judging on degree of difficulty, and short race 9-ball can join the ranks of rhythmic gymnastics and synchronized swimming (where it belongs). End of rant.
 
Last edited:
Grady said:
We need someone who can deal with TV. Can you think of a sport besides pool where the TV matches pr games are shortened to ludicrous lengths? I can't.
I wouldn't watch a single game of football if the contests were 10 minutes long. How bout' basketball being a race to 7 buckets?
On top of the match being a race to 7 in NYC this week the tables were vin-tage BCA "loose".The pockets were cavernous.
Just some random observations- - - -



Grady,

You are right about this, HOWEVER.... I think it will always come down to money and the fans of the sport. ANy sport. If football games got shortened or edited to 10 minutes, there would be riots. All the multi-million dollar players, coaches and owners would lead the riots to be sure. Same with basketball; although IMO, basketball is boring and could stand to be shortened since the last 10 min. of most games would tell it all. Either that or raise the basket to 12 ft.

Until pool has more of a fan base and more money backing sponsors, the races to 7 will remain the norm. MAybe ESPN doesn't realize how many TV viewers they have that would like to see some true competition? Just a thought & not sure how to remedy it other than a write in campaign or something. The players who are playing the matches would probably be the best bet for getting vocal about it. Maybe someone would listen.

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
Williebetmore said:
At Derby City this year, it looked like anyone could beat anyone - it seemed like an exhibition not a competitive sport. The outcome is linked mainly to the luck of the break (and the resulting leave).

Willie, I resemble that remark! Oops, I mean, oh, to hell with it! My only defense was it was alternate break. Seriously, you're right. Don't pick on the DCC. Even a race to nine is too short to be a true test. Perhaps a race to fifteen or more. How about call ball? What do you think about that Grady?

Williebetmore said:
P.S. - How long will it be before T.V. realizes that skill is not necessarily rewarded in 9 - ball; at that point they will initiate judging on degree of difficulty, and short race 9-ball can join the ranks of rhythmic gymnastics and synchronized swimming (where it belongs). End of rant.

In other sports, the sanctioning body determines the length of combat (oops, I mean play). We really don't have one so ESPN tells us what it is! Try to shorten an NFL or NBA game to three quarters.
 
Gremlin said:
The best pool is played in Friday and Saturday in the race
to 9 format which you never see on TV.

Hi Gremlin,

Don't mean to be rude but, I remember a few years back, you and I "discussed" the relative merits of watching early matches at a tournament. You felt, because of seeding, you only got to watch some players doing OJT against the best. Myself included. Only the Sunday matches were worth watching (and paying for). A lot of people missed Gabe Owen (and other young future stars) doing his best "training" at the US Open because of that.
 
The funny thing is that when you see a race to 7 on TV you STILL don't get to see the entire match, they will skip from a 1-1 score to 3-3....is there anything more annoying. The dilema is that you can't fit a race to 11 in a one hour time slot and TV stations don't wanna give up more time. I do know one thing, I would rather see races to 7 on TV than see no pool at all (they could show the lumberjack challenge)


My solution is to move to Asia where where pool is shown LIVE on TV every single week, no short races either.
 
Grady said:
We need someone who can deal with TV. Can you think of a sport besides pool where the TV matches pr games are shortened to ludicrous lengths? I can't.
I wouldn't watch a single game of football if the contests were 10 minutes long. How bout' basketball being a race to 7 buckets?
On top of the match being a race to 7 in NYC this week the tables were vin-tage BCA "loose".The pockets were cavernous.
Just some random observations- - - -

TV does not regard pool as a real sport but just an interesting exhibition sport sort of like a rodeo. No one knows the players or really cares who wins. They just want to watch a little and then change channels. That is a fact.
 
Anyone see the Scrabble championship this weekend?

They had NO problem showing that garbage on E.S.P.N. for an hour or two yesterday but they shorten the 9 ball matches? The reputation of pool CANNOT be that bad! They even had an audience clapping when they made a word, or a "BINGO", is what they call it when they use all of the letters in their hand. Makes me sick, I just don't get it. Has a pool player ever hit a big lottery? If I do someday, things are going to change, I promise. Until then, I'll just piss and moan about it. Peace.
 
macguy said:
No one knows the players or really cares who wins. They just want to watch a little and then change channels. That is a fact.

Mac,
Are you sure this is a fact, and not just opinion?? I watch, and I care who wins. I also dislike the format they imposed. It does not sound like a fact to me (and many on this forum if previous threads are any indication). Of course, it may be a fact that the network execs believe as you do.

On the other hand, I have no clue as to the demographics of the actual viewing audience. If you have good information on this please share. Is it pool fanatics, or is it the uninformed/short attention span/general public, or is it both??? I doubt even ESPN could answer that for you. The Nielsen ratings and other polling devices that they use are horribly flawed from a scientific standpoint. The polling practices they use seem geared towards making their station look good, and maximizing the amount they can charge to the advertisers.
 
Williebetmore,


I will agree with macguy in that, the general public doesn't care about pool in the least. They go out on the weekends play "fun" pool with their friends and girlfriends and could care less about competent professional pool players and they could care less about playing at a compentent level. Go to any professional tournament and the only fans at these tournaments are Gamblers, competent pool players (pro/amature), retailers of billiard products and services and league players. This is what makes up the fan base for pocket billiards. People don't gather around the tv to watch pool, but they will gather around to watch golf, football, college games, baseball and basketball and buy chips, wings, beer/pop and grill steaks or paint their faces the colors of their favorite team or where their teams jerseys. When was the last time anyone called a bunch of their friends over to their house to watch a edited pool match on TV or the latest accu-stat video??? That is what seperates the GAME of pool from SPORTS!
 
Last edited:
Just to add my two cents to this thread, I really don't how much improvement we are going to see in the way that pool is presented on television. I agree that a short race to seven is ludicrous, and not a true test of skill. Not to continue to beat a dead horse (espn's coverage of pool) but after seeing trick-shot magic matches over and over and over again it begins to get old after seeing a particular match for the sixth or seventh time. Nothing against trick shots, I enjoy watching them executed by great artistic pool players such as Mike Massey, Paul Gerni, Stefano Pelinga, Andy Segal, and Tom Rossman among others, but as previously stated not when they are continually repeated.

However, I am glad that ESPN is showing pool, and that they will be showing some abbreviated matches from the U.S. Open this year. Even though pool is still considered "filler" this is at least some progress. This is strickly my opinion but one of the reasons I believe pool occupies this "filler" status is the number of serious pool players who have taken the time to learn the game compared to those who haven't. (those who occasionally play pool with friends at a social gathering, party, holiday....etc.

I've tried to get people I know who fall into this category interested in watching pool but I guess they find it too slow and boring to enjoy it as they would a sport such as football, baseball, or basketball.

Pool will never hold the same place in the United States as it does in many of the Asian countries, simply because it is, in my belief, not presently geared toward the demographic who really enjoy it. We don't have live, un-abbreviated pool on a regular basis in the U.S. (at least in recent years) Pool will most likely never be as popular in the U.S. as it is in Asia because of all the competition it faces here, and also, although I don't know if these are the rights words but it seem like in places such as the Phillippines, there seems to be more of a "pool culture" than in the U.S.

The taped coverage of pool on ESPN is presently catered more towards the casual fan of the game, I believe than it is towards people like myself and probably many other members of this forum who could probably watch pool most every day of the week. This is one of the reasons I believe we have seen the shift from straight-pool to nine ball.

Although pool has definately gotten a bad rap over the years, I don't think this what is holding it back as far being seen as a sport that people enjoy watching. Pool probably has a rate of participation among the general public that is close to bowling.

I like watching any televised pool, but in the future possibly we will see more balanced coverage of pool. Pool that serious players/fans of the sport would enjoy watching more, while still taking into consideration the more casual pool player/fan. This is probably wishful thinking but it would be good if it were televised live and a certain time slot/s so those interested in watching it would know when it was going to be on.
 
Just a clarification. We know what audience the ESPN matches are geared towards (the casual viewer), but who is really watching?? I wish I knew. If only the serious fanatics are watching, ESPN will probably eventually drop it, or change it into a different product.
 
Williebetmore said:
Mac,
Are you sure this is a fact, and not just opinion?? I watch, and I care who wins. I also dislike the format they imposed. It does not sound like a fact to me (and many on this forum if previous threads are any indication). Of course, it may be a fact that the network execs believe as you do.

On the other hand, I have no clue as to the demographics of the actual viewing audience. If you have good information on this please share. Is it pool fanatics, or is it the uninformed/short attention span/general public, or is it both??? I doubt even ESPN could answer that for you. The Nielsen ratings and other polling devices that they use are horribly flawed from a scientific standpoint. The polling practices they use seem geared towards making their station look good, and maximizing the amount they can charge to the advertisers.

When TBS started out it was going to be partly a sports channel. I attended a meeting that the people from TBS were at and pool was pitched. What I said in my post was almost their exact words. They also did not regard it as a timely sport. In other words they did not care if the matches were played five yeas earlier they could show it since people just watch to see the play and who wins or who they watching are doesn't matter, (their opinion not mine). ESPN exhibits this attitude. They show the same stuff over and over like, "who cares" it just fills time anyway. They will bump pool for almost anything else happening. Could you imagine them showing the same ball games week after week. Either way, these are people in charge and that is how they feel. I wish I could say something different, but I can't.
 
Shorter races - tighter pockets. Simple. IMHO, for instance straight pool shouldn't be played on buckets for pockets. I'd like to see every shot count, and not seeing every shot being a hanger because of pockets which suck everything in vicinity in. Takes the excitement off from the spectators. I know many pros would look actually quite bad if the pockets would be much tighter. Tighter pockets would require more skill on pocketing but also more precision position play because you just couldn't leave any angle & distance at a object ball and fire everything in at 100mph.
 
All of this crap can be easily answered if we had a cable/satellite channel dedicated to pool/billiards... ala The Golf Channel.. Im my opinion, BCN just doesnt work for me. It doesnt have to be 24 hrs of continious pool maybe 16-18hrs and the rest paid programming. What we need here is someone with alot of cash and knows the ins and outs of tv industry to get a channel like that started and funded. Maybe the big companies in the industry like Brunswick, Olhausen etc would for a partnership to fund that channel. How hard can it be... some colleges even have their own tv stations....
 
Race to 7

I might as well add my thoughts..

I guess it would have to start with are people willing to pay to watch pool ?

I know the US Open charges a fee.. But most of the casinos and other venues are free. Would people attend if they had to pay ?

How about a TV commercial have you ever seen one ?

How about a 2 hour live event so you do not have to wait 2 months to watch a tournament.

Fox is showing a 1 hour WPC special that happened in July this month.

You have to get major companies to buy into it.
Not just Billiards oriented products.. Simonis,Sardo,Brunswick....etc.

How about Coke, Pepsi, Microsoft, or game manufactures...
Even GE or Phillips who supply the lighting of the table.

I think if there was advertising of the event, a live 2 hour event and some corporate backing you could have a few events they way you would like.

You also need the players to band like the WPBA. A real orginization a real tour, a governing body that is setup.

Its a hard sport to sell. But I hope we do not sell out in the process of having trickshot events pay out more than tournaments. Which is what happen @ Mohegan Sun the womens trickshot tournament paid out $35,000 and the Tournament of Champions pay's $25,000.

The good news in all of this is.... We are getting more pool..
Maybe ESPN should show some pool on Classic Sports.
This way they probably could get a 2 hour time slot and show some of the matches from the past without the edits.

Support the events in your area.. This is the start.

Grady your thoughts.
 
Grady said:
We need someone who can deal with TV. Can you think of a sport besides pool where the TV matches pr games are shortened to ludicrous lengths? I can't.
I wouldn't watch a single game of football if the contests were 10 minutes long. How bout' basketball being a race to 7 buckets?
On top of the match being a race to 7 in NYC this week the tables were vin-tage BCA "loose".The pockets were cavernous.
Just some random observations- - - -

Grady
I didn't get to see it, but I'll bet for the TV matches you just forgot to mention one thing. They will probably use a shot clock also. I've mentioned it in other threads here, but nobody seems to agree with me that a shot clock has no business in pool. To me it is just another bastardization of the game added to your list of things done to suit the TV giants.
 
Rude Dog said:
They had NO problem showing that garbage (scrabble match) on E.S.P.N. for an hour or two yesterday They even had an audience clapping when they made a word, or a "BINGO", is what they call it when they use all of the letters in their hand. I just don't get it.


I didn't know you were such an erudite (7 letters - "Bingo") guy. :D Seems like it held your attention though until somebody at least used all of their letters.
You'll get it...just stay tuned for the next exciting installment. Also, tune into the national spelling bee on ESPN.... Can you spell....
"Ican'tfuckingbelieveIwasstupidenoughtowatchthat"? :eek:
 
Shot Clock

I am not against the shot clock..
It speeds the game up.

Without a shot clock you might not fit a race to 11 in 2hours with commercials
 
fbreen said:
I am not against the shot clock..
It speeds the game up.

Without a shot clock you might not fit a race to 11 in 2hours with commercials

How about One Pocket, should there be a shot clock then also?
I rest my case.
 
Back
Top