I currently use a original 314 promo type shaft at least like 10 yrs old I think. It still has the black ring on it. Anyways, I think its fine, what does bug me is a slightly mushrooming tip , I turn until I see a flush shaft in sight with the OB, is it just me?
Radial consistency of the Predator shaft.
- Thread starter Tennesseejoe
- Start date
Tennesseejoe said:
A shaft may leave the shop @ 96% radial uniformity or
whatever predator's standard is (if they even test it after
it's completed), and by the time you get it, it's 91% consistent.
And in one year it's 85% consistent.
Is this acceptable?
How much different is this than a good one piece shaft?
How much inconsistency exists in the glued joints or in
the ferrule material, or the tip?
What's the diff?
When was the last time anybody said "Man, the radial consistency on my one piece shaft sucks"? Does anybody remember noticing the radial INconsistency of their non-laminated shaft?
This is a non-topic.
pj
chgo
When was the last time anybody said "Man, the radial consistency on my one piece shaft sucks"? Does anybody remember noticing the radial INconsistency of their non-laminated shaft?
This is a non-topic.
pj
chgo
Yep. It was warped. I'd call that a radial inconsistency. Ask some of the old timers why they shoot certain shots with the grain up, and certain shots with the grain sideways. Obviously, they have noticed these "inconsistencies" in their one piece shafts.Patrick Johnson said:
I wonder what people did before Predator ever made a shaft. It's like no one ever thought about this until the early 90s..............
shawn - try an ob-1 they're great. don't let the wooden ferrule put you off. after a couple of shots you won't even notice it!
Patrick Johnson said:
TAP TAP TAP
Radial consistency?! You have got to be kidding me... (the next new buzzword in the shaft gimmick business, I'm sure)
Patrick: rep for calling BS first...
Coop: rep for TAPs...
Patrick: rep for calling BS first...
Coop: rep for TAPs...
I like my i-shafts. Perfectly happy with them. Thanks for the suggestion, though.worriedbeef said:
Shawn Armstrong said:
LOL, I was happy with my I-shafts too until I found OB-1!
The Ob-1 has a better hit, and has a better deflection rating.
I owned all 3 I-shafts, and I think they are inferior to predator and OB-1 as far as construction, and as far as deflection ratings.
Shawn Armstrong said:
Eddie Laube thought of in in the 1960's. He was one of the early ones to put a dot on the shaft. The idea was to always put the dot up when you played - so the shaft would always bend the same. Coincidentally, Meucci came up with the "idea" and so did a few others much later.
Chris
Ps. That's too bad about your Predator warping. I think it's really bad policy for them not to give you a new shaft with their humblest of apologies. I've been a little nervous about my new ones since they're now made overseas, but no problems yet.
Just for clarification: By the tern "radial consistency" I was refering to the variance of deflection/squirt from a shaft at different rotations. In other words if you shoot the same shot 4 times but rotate the shaft one quarter turn for each shot do you experience the same of different deflection?
Let's get Real
I have tried the predator (314 and Z), the McDermott shaft (all 3) and the OB-1 shaft. I like the OB-1 the best, as far as laminated shafts go. However, Let's look at the big picture. Has these laminated shafts been tested againist High End custom shafts from Black Boar, SouthWest, Mike Bender and etc. I have seen all the test results and videos that is available to the general public and it is all one sided. All the solid maple shafts they tested have been from POS production cues. Sorry, I am not trying to offend anyone here, but JOSS, Schon, Adams, Lucassi and etc. are production cues. They make thosands of these a month. They quality of the wood is not in the same class as the BIG High End Custom Cue Makers who only make 10-100 cues a year.
What I would like to see is some Black Boar and SouthWest shafts loaded into "Iron Willy" and see there results on Deflection, Squirt and Radial Consistencey!!!!!!!!!!!
Now. lets look at another angle on this subject:
IMHO, The bottom line is that the laminated shafts are better than the POS shafts you get with your FURY cue but they are not better than your High End Custom Shafts. No production product is going to be better than a good high end quality shaft with the right taper to match your playing style and most importantly, a properly groomed TIP!!!!!!!!!
REPS for Patrick, Coop and Seymore for not falling for the gimmick industry!!!!!!!
seymore15074 said:
I have tried the predator (314 and Z), the McDermott shaft (all 3) and the OB-1 shaft. I like the OB-1 the best, as far as laminated shafts go. However, Let's look at the big picture. Has these laminated shafts been tested againist High End custom shafts from Black Boar, SouthWest, Mike Bender and etc. I have seen all the test results and videos that is available to the general public and it is all one sided. All the solid maple shafts they tested have been from POS production cues. Sorry, I am not trying to offend anyone here, but JOSS, Schon, Adams, Lucassi and etc. are production cues. They make thosands of these a month. They quality of the wood is not in the same class as the BIG High End Custom Cue Makers who only make 10-100 cues a year.
What I would like to see is some Black Boar and SouthWest shafts loaded into "Iron Willy" and see there results on Deflection, Squirt and Radial Consistencey!!!!!!!!!!!
Now. lets look at another angle on this subject:
Custom High End Shafts
- Made from Slow Growth Hard Rock Maple Shafts (100+ years old)
- 30-40 Growth Rings per Inch. More rings = More solid and Stable Wood
Laminated Shafts
- Have alot of engineering behinnd there design
- Use inferior wood 10-15 rings per inch.
- Has alot of glue in the shaft.
IMHO, The bottom line is that the laminated shafts are better than the POS shafts you get with your FURY cue but they are not better than your High End Custom Shafts. No production product is going to be better than a good high end quality shaft with the right taper to match your playing style and most importantly, a properly groomed TIP!!!!!!!!!
REPS for Patrick, Coop and Seymore for not falling for the gimmick industry!!!!!!!
Last edited:
Poke N Hope said:
Great points, I'll agree to some extent. Not that I disagree, but rather, there is a "blurred" area of discression here...can I tell which way my shaft is rotated? No. Can others? I doubt it, so it seems like a moot issue to me. Of course, that doesn't mean that there aren't differences.
Poke N Hope said:
You may like the custom shafts better and that is fine, because everyone has their own preference. However I can buy and OB-1 at any time and have it play just like the OB-1's that I currently have. You can't do that with a custom cue shaft. I don't care how hard you try! You couldn't just test one shaft and say it plays better either. Because I guarantee each shaft that you pick up from a custom cue maker will have different deflection properties to them. Simply because no two pieces of wood are the same. In all honesty it is the same for regular maple shafts made by production cue makers. And I would put my OB-1's against any shaft to see how good or bad it compares. By the way just because it is a production shaft doesn't mean it has a tip that isn't properly groomed. Any shaft can have a properly groomed tip!
You tell'em
Whatever YOU can play the best with. To each his own. Those laser sited stroke helpers, and laminated shafts, and powder-coatings for the shafts, and many other gimmicks might work for you. THERE IS NO MAGICAL PRODUCT THAT WILL MAKE YOU PLAY LIKE EFREN. I feel that a lot of guys are searching for magic. The perfect cue that will make them never make a mental mistake? If it's out there, send me one for ten thousand. All said and done, these products work for you? Use them. Give me a nice, tight grained shaft with a great taper, and perfect tip, and I'll be just fine. I know guys that will buy every gimmick on the market, hoping it will make them string six. Play. Compete (under stressful situations, whether tournament or gambling), Put time in on the table. Watch great players. Practice. Question. These things make you start running racks.Poke N Hope said:
crawfish said:
You are quite right in no gimmick will help you play better. But that wasn't the topic of this thread. The topic was whether or not a predator was radial consistent more so than a traditional maple shaft. The answer is yes it is. The OB-1 is even more radial consistent. It is true that nothing will make you a better player, but I want the most consistent shaft that feels comfortable to me. The OB-1 is that shaft. So that is what I choose to play with. Everyone can play with whatever they want, but OB-1 and predator are more radial consistent with better deflection properties.
txplshrk said:
You like OB-1, I like custom shafts. Like you stated, it is preference.
I wished somebody would test the laminated shafts againist High End Custom Shafts. But they haven't, I don't know why.
So what if you can buy multiple ob-1 and they play the same. You can only play with one shaft at a time anyway.Unless your somebody that plays with a different butt for each day of the week that is a moot point.
And the point I was trying to make about the properly groomed tip is this: That playing with any cue shaft (Laminated are not) having the right TAPER for your playing style and a properly groomed tip is just as important as Deflection, Squirt and Radial Consistency. I don't care what kind of shaft you use you are still going to have to deal with Deflection, Squirt and Radial Consistencey!!!!!!!!
Here is food for a thought. How much better could a laminated shaft be if they used better wood?
And yeah!! Who Radial Consistent is a flat laminated shaft like Arnot's T3?
Poke N Hope said:
I never said Arnot's were radial consistent, they are as about radial consistent as a muecci black dot. Hold it with the flat panels vertical it will be different than holding it with the flat panels horizontal. But his shafts are more consistent between each of his shafts. Meaning if you buy his cue it will hit pretty much like the cue I buy. However if you buy another custom cue makers cue and I buy from the same cue maker they may have totally different hits due to the difference in the shafts.
A laminated shaft won't be any better if they use better wood. They are taking the spine out of the wood which makes the quality of wood a mute point. The way they engineered and designed them the wood has little effect because they get rid of the spine. By the way, how do you know they don't use quality wood? If they take a piece of wood that has more growth rings in it and do what they are doing with the wood they currently have it isn't going to play any better. The only reason that the custom cue makers look for more growth rings is like you said to make it stiffer, and it shouldn't have as much of a spine. However, the way OB-1's are designed you would just be wasting your money to use a more expensive wood. Since they chop it up anyway, and reconstruct it.
As far as me switching butts that has nothing to do with it. However if I ever mess up my shaft I can get a replacement. You won't find a replacement for that custom cue shaft that will play the exact same or close to it. It will be like having a new cue all over again. It might play close to the same, but it won't play the same. I can order another shaft today, and have it play the same as the shaft I currently have. Again it is more consistent so therefore to me consistency is a key point.
Yes tips, and tapers are just as important as deflection, and consistency. So if you look for the best tip, and the best taper, why not look for the most radial consistent, with less deflection?
You will always have deflection, squirt, radial consistency. You are right about that. However, I have a shaft that I can replace and not change my deflection, squirt, and radial consistency. Therefore I don't have to learn how a new shaft reacts if I mess this one up. In other words I get rid of a learning curve. Or in a since I have more consistent equipment.
I've tested quite a few different shafts. The question is , define the standard for 'radial consistancy'. There isn't one.
Radially shafts have just as much variance from one to the another as any other wood product. None of which are highly consistant IMO and only marginally more so then the average solid wood shaft based the the few dozen I've checked. The 'pie' is not so much the difference as is all the glue joints.
Anyone overly concerned about it should spine and then mark all thier shafts (laminated or not) and play them in consistant orientation.
Personally I have my favorite shafts (only one of which is a laminated BTW) and I just stick with those.
Radially shafts have just as much variance from one to the another as any other wood product. None of which are highly consistant IMO and only marginally more so then the average solid wood shaft based the the few dozen I've checked. The 'pie' is not so much the difference as is all the glue joints.
Anyone overly concerned about it should spine and then mark all thier shafts (laminated or not) and play them in consistant orientation.
Personally I have my favorite shafts (only one of which is a laminated BTW) and I just stick with those.