Radial Pin or Not?

[twilight]

what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin.

 

[twilight]

what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

 

[ridewiththewind]

At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, I believe the reason you "just do not get it" is that there is nothing to get. I don't know anyone who is knowledgeable about pool cue say that a Radial pin makes for a weak joint.

Thanks Bill....I thought that maybe I was losing it...Lol. I could swear that this Josey (who uses Radial pins exclusively, afaik) is the most most solid and stable feeling cue I have ever shot with!

Lisa

 

[JoeyInCali]

what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

By design, I think it's better than the regular 3/8 10. The threads are U shaped instead of V shape. On V shaped threads , the tip of the threads are what mates with the wood. On radail pins, the inside of the pin has more contact with the wood threads. More contact and tighter.
Some problems are due to bad tapping of the shaft in my opinion.
I have found the best way to avoid cross threading is to make sure the first thread on the shaft is deep already or full-size not like a pilot hole.
Loosening can be solved by using the undersized tap or boring the hole a little under 5/16 before tapping.
Or using a phenolic insert solves some problems as well.

 

[ridewiththewind]

what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

I believe that Keith Josey uses Radial pins exclusively, and has for a while. Pat Diveney appears to use the Radial as his primary pin, but he has also used a G-10 pin. I believe that Steve Klein uses a Radial as well. Not to mention our own Kevin Varney and Brent Hartmann...and I am sure I am leaving some out.

Until now, my preferred pin was the 3/8-10...but I gotta say, I like this Radial the best!

Lisa

 

[JoeyInCali]

believe that Keith Josey uses Radial pins exclusively, and has for a while. Pat Diveney appears to use the Radial as his primary pin, but he has also used a G-10 pin

Black G10 radials are now available.

 

[TIMBER1]

I spoke with Jeff of A&E a few years ago about why they used Radial pins. I believe he said radials had the most surface to wood of any pin on the market.
To tighten the joint take thin superglue, place a drop in the shaft and spin a few seconds, and then add the accelerator to harden. If it’s to tight run a tap in by hand.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I spoke with Jeff of A&E a few years ago about why they used Radial pins. I believe he said radials had the most surface to wood of any pin on the market.
To tighten the joint take thin superglue, place a drop in the shaft and spin a few seconds, and then add the accelerator to harden. If it’s to tight run a tap in by hand.

Make sure your pin has wax or silicone around it when you drop some superglue down the shaft hole and following it with the butt's pin.
Or just drop a little water in there then empty it out. The wood will swell a little. Make sure you don't wet the face of the shaft.

 

[ridewiththewind]

believe that Keith Josey uses Radial pins exclusively, and has for a while. Pat Diveney appears to use the Radial as his primary pin, but he has also used a G-10 pin

Black G10 radials are now available.

Mmmmm...black G-10 Radials.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Mmmmm...black G-10 Radials.

I'm getting some made with Prada patterns.

 

[ridewiththewind]

I'm getting some made with Prada patterns.

That's too funny! Tried to rep ya for it, but it says I gotta spread the 'luv' before I can rep you again...darn it all!!

 

[buddha162]

I guess I do not understand why the Radial is considered the weakest either. It appears to be an increasingly popular pin amongst cuemakers and players alike...so it doesn't make sense to me that if it were the weakest, why would it be so popular? It makes for a very solid and stable feeling connection...I guess I just do not get it.

Lisa

I was just wondering what he's referring to when he called a certain type of pin the weakest "joint." It would make no sense to me if he is saying that the Radial pin, regardless of material, is weaker than say, a 3/8-10 of the same material. But if he's saying that flat-faced joints in general are weaker than piloted joints, I would not dismiss it out of hand. I guess it would depend on what he means by "weak."

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

what I would like to know is this. Are cue makers using more and more radial pins because it's "better" than other pins. Or is it more likely that some people out there think the radial pin is better and asking more cuemakers to make thier cues with radial pins. Which is the cause and which is the effect.

I remember reading about a test some time ago where SS and Ivory joints were covered with tape or something and most people couldn't tell what kind of joint it was when they hit with it. If people can't tell the joint sleeve, could they really tell what joint pin was in the cue?

I once had a discussion with a well known cuemaker and he said it's really all mental. If people think radials play better then they should play with a radial pin. If someone thinks a 5/16x14 plays better then they should use that pin. A good pin is a good pin... as long as it's made well.

I adhere to the thinking that when it comes to feedback, the joint configeration matters more than the collar material and certainly the kind of pin used. I don't think anyone can tell the difference between a Radial pin and a 3/8-11 (both flat-faced) once the cue is assembled.

But the reason why people can't tell between a ivory piloted joint and a flat-faced steel joint in that experiment is because the joint material/config is only a small part of a cue's distinct feedback. That test did not isolate the factor being tested. I believe that if the same maker, using the same materials and specs/construction with maybe the same Universal shaft can build a series of cues with different joints, and most sensitive players will notice the difference immediately.

From what I understand, many cuemakers switched to Radial pins because it is more precise, and shafts can be tapped perfectly to fit every cue they make. The installation of a Radial pin is also easier, and more precise than rolled versions of 3/8 pins.

-Roger

 

[14oneman]

What do you mean by this? Are you talking about the pin?

-Roger

WOW! I guess I opened up a can of worms for all you radial pin folks! LOL!

Roger, no, I was not refering to the pin itself, but the joint as a whole. I have seen quite a few of these joints crack, ( on the shaft side), and/or loosen up. My friend had one strip out on the shaft side, and he never overtightened the cue. Perhaps the cuemaker just did a crappy job?

I'm simply not a fan of cues that thread directly into wood. I think a piloted SS is a much more stable joint. I feel the same way about the Uni-Loc. On radials, over time, I've seen the wood threads on the shaft wear, whereas a brass insert or implex is less likely to do so.

Sorry, I didn't mean to crap on anybody's pancakes!

 

[buddha162]

Roger, no, I was not refering to the pin itself, but the joint as a whole. I have seen quite a few of these joints crack, ( on the shaft side), and/or loosen up.

I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much, the pin forcing its way into the thread can actually damage the integrity of the shaftwood. If that is what happened to the cues you saw crack, I'm not sure if that makes a Radial pinned cue "weak," per se.

-Roger

 

[X Breaker]

I will not name any cue maker here. I just want to say that I have had two problems before with Radial pins. Both of them were problems regarding the wood in the shaft splitting when I tried to tighten the cue.

I also had a few problems with Unilock when the insert was locked to the pin, and the insert came out from the shaft and then stayed locked to the joint pin.

Having said that, it may not be the problem of the joint but how it was handled, installed, and used.

I like the Layani joint because I never have had any problem with it.

 

[14oneman]

I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much, the pin forcing its way into the thread can actually damage the integrity of the shaftwood. If that is what happened to the cues you saw crack, I'm not sure if that makes a Radial pinned cue "weak," per se.

-Roger

Interesting point Roger. Perhaps "weak" is not the best way to describe what I mean. Maybe "vulnerable" would be a better way to put it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I didn't think you were referring to the actual pin.

But I've spoken to a couple of cuemakers who refuse to use the popular undersized Radial tap on their shafts. They think that if it gets too humid, and the shaft wood swells too much, the pin forcing its way into the thread can actually damage the integrity of the shaftwood. If that is what happened to the cues you saw crack, I'm not sure if that makes a Radial pinned cue "weak," per se.

-Roger

I don't know if that's valid.
The hole in that shaft is still 5/16 before tapped. The bottom of the threads are only 2 thousandths smaller than the regular one.
An undersized hole might be the culprit. Not the tap.
Dropping boiled linseed oil in that hole might be of help to seal that wood for a long time. Better that wax b/c wax doesn't seep in the wood.

 

[SnakePool]

Joint pins are like fishing lures, they are made to lure the fisherman.

 

[bells]

I recently recieved a Mike Capone cue wich features the radial pin. I must say it is very stiff hitting cue. I absolutely love it. Even though it is a stiff hitting cue I have alot of 'feel" with the cue. I have also had cues with the 3/8-10 pin and I liked them very much as well. I will also say that I prefer flat faced joints that have the joint pin going directly into the shaft. I prefer these styles vs a brass insert into the shaft. As far as the quick release uniloc joint.......well I also feel that it compramises feel overall .