rail bolts for gold crown 4
- Thread starter dendweller
- Start date
All that's happening here is trying to keep metal-to-metal contact from happening and the resultant consequences of such, not keeping equipment moving. Some fastener lubricants have moly in them...far from most. As a millwright/outside machinist in steel mills and refineries for over forty years, I do have a good working knowledge of these products.
Maybe there was some over engineering. Either that or the person that specified the stud and nut instead of the bolt in the initial table design was fresh out of school or from the auto industry.And you're bolting a wood rail to the slate, 15ft lbs max torque, grade 5 and up 3/8" by 16 x 2 1/4"-2 1/2" work great. There is no over engineering required. You have a fail safe, if you over tighten the bolts you're going to start crushing the dome lock washer, that's what that washer is.
15 foot pounds of torque people, MAX. On a GC 12ft pounds will work too, just check and adjust more often.
Ps, your threaded rod is only grade 5
From https://www.autoserviceprofessional...s-and-tips-on-achieving-proper-clamping-loads
"For a performance or heavy-duty application, the use of studs is preferred whenever possible instead of main cap bolts, in those instances where a choice is available. Studs provide the ability to obtain much more accurate torque values because the studs don’t twist during tightening as do bolts. Because the studs remain stationary during nut tightening, the studs stretch in one axis alone, providing much more even and accurate clamping forces. Also, because the use of studs results in less wear applied to the block’s threads, this extends the life of the threaded holes in the block over periods of servicing/rebuilding."
Guess that would be out of scope for this purpose.
Thanks, I appreciate the input.The rod is grade 5 hardness. Look, you're talking about bolting the rails on a pool table, grade 5 Hex head bolts are great, cheap, and I like them a lot more than the threaded rod and nut, seeing how you have to try holding the nut AND washer at the sametime, while trying to thread the nut on too.
You're building out a pool table, not a rocket ship going to the moon, if that were the case I'd recommend you buy some titanium bolt!
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Apples to oranges. What's the lb. ft. spec on a main cap? 125 lb. ft.? We are talking about 12-15 lb. ft. for a pool table. Also, when the stud bottoms out in an engine block it's got nowhere to go. When the stud bottoms out in the rail, it can still go through the wood causing damage to the rail top. I'm not even going to get into the amount of threads the stud is in contact with in an engine application vs the amount of threads in the floating nut plate in the rails. If it were my table, I'd get 2.25" bolts and ditch the studs/nuts. They seemed to work just fine on the GCI-GCIII.
I'd wager one of the reasons they went with the stud/nut design was in effort to minimize cross threading by over zealous installers who do not take the time to thread it in by hand and tighten to spec using hand tools but instead have at it straight away with the impact driver.
Like I said, out of scope for this application.
As far as the stud going through the top of the rail, it's only 1/4 inch longer than the 2.5 inch bolt RKC said is okay so as long as you make sure the nut(about 5/16 high) is fully on the stud it I don't see where it really has more of a chance of going through the top of the rail. In fact, I would argue less unless you welded on the nut to the stud.
As long as you don't use a bolt or stud too long or leave the dome washer out I don't think that will be a problem.
And you're probably right about why they went that way, you're less likely to strip something threading it in with just the threads in your fingers.
I'm glad for all these types of conversations taking place because the more you home owners learn, the less the hacks are screwing up.
I can appreciate that, its just far different from what we typically use anti seize for. In the hi-perf auto world its pretty much resigned to prevent dissimilar metals from seizing due to corrosion as the name implies. I can tell you from torqueing higher tensile strength fasteners that you can see a difference using anti seize vs a moly or graphite based lubricant.
To the OP: Listen to what the Cobra and trentfromtoledo said about the Domed Washer. This part takes control of the amount of Clamping Force that's possible. Unless of course you completely flatten the washer. Then all bets are off and you're in big trouble.And you're bolting a wood rail to the slate, 15ft lbs max torque, grade 5 and up 3/8" by 16 x 2 1/4"-2 1/2" work great. There is no over engineering required. You have a fail safe, if you over tighten the bolts you're going to start crushing the dome lock washer, that's what that washer is.
15 foot pounds of torque people, MAX. On a GC 12ft pounds will work too, just check and adjust more often.
Ps, your threaded rod is only grade 5
As far as Anti Seize being a lubricant, it's not sold that way but it does indeed add lubricity to an assembly and the applied torque spec should indeed be lowered, but again, pay attention to the domed washer. When it starts to flatten.... You're likely done. Maybe well done.
Again, just listen to Cobra. Go with grade 5 standard carbon steel bolts then use the torque spec called out which is a spec for a dry installation. No anti-seize, no lubricants.
I'm not a table mechanic. Just a torque nerd.
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Agreed. The likelihood of the fasteners seizing is zero. There are no heat cycles on rail bolts like there are on exhaust manifold bolts on an engine. Unless there's a TON of moisture in the air, the fasteners will not seize; 2.25" bolts, domed washer, torqued to 15 lb. ft. dry. End of story.