Raise your butt?

[lights_out]

I was watching a match the other day and Efren got a little out of line, as below. Due to impeding balls around the table, going 3-4 rails around for position was not an option. It was a ring 10 ball game so safties were not allowed either and he had to go for the shot. Billy Incardona said the key to getting position was to jack up the butt and hit with low inside english. Billy stressed that Efren must jack up to get position off the top rail. What does jacking up do to the cue ball as opposed to hitting with a level cue? I'm just trying to learn something.

CueTable Help

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

I was watching a match the other day and Efren got a little out of line, as below. Due to impeding balls around the table, going 3-4 rails around for position was not an option. It was a ring 10 ball game so safties were not allowed either and he had to go for the shot. Billy Incardona said the key to getting position was to jack up the butt and hit with low inside english. Billy stressed that Efren must jack up to get position off the top rail. What does jacking up do to the cue ball as opposed to hitting with a level cue? I'm just trying to learn something.

CueTable Help

So that it can curve hitting the top long rail and curving it back on for position for the 4. Want more proof, go to 30:27 on this clip and you will see that Buddy Hall is elevating about 40 degrees or so to create that curve off the rail.

Cheers

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I was watching a match the other day and Efren got a little out of line, as below. Due to impeding balls around the table, going 3-4 rails around for position was not an option. It was a ring 10 ball game so safties were not allowed either and he had to go for the shot. Billy Incardona said the key to getting position was to jack up the butt and hit with low inside english. Billy stressed that Efren must jack up to get position off the top rail. What does jacking up do to the cue ball as opposed to hitting with a level cue? I'm just trying to learn something.

CueTable Help

Ah, this type of shot was first shown to me by Jimmy Burke when I was a wee lad. By jacking-up and drawing, you are allowing the cue-ball to travel along the perpendicular angle a little longer than normal. It makes the cueball hop and won't draw back until it's done.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... What does jacking up do to the cue ball as opposed to hitting with a level cue? ...

Two things that help: it gets more spin on the cue ball in relation to its speed so you get a better angle off the cushion, and you get some masse curve on the way to the ball, so it's like you are playing a fuller shot. For the shot shown, only a champion has a good chance to make it work the first try with significant elevation. If you want to try it, make the shot shorter.

 

[Handsumm]

Ever seen this shot?

CueTable Help

You have to jack up quite a bit, and it takes a lot of control, but it is similar in concept.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Ah, this type of shot was first shown to me by Jimmy Burke when I was a wee lad. By jacking-up and drawing, you are allowing the cue-ball to travel along the perpendicular angle a little longer than normal. It makes the cueball hop and won't draw back until it's done.

It was a different shot; he was following, not drawing.

Anyway, the CB does a bit of a masse, due to the elevation, in between the 3-ball and the rail. That makes it hit the rail further to the left than would be possible with a level cue, meaning it doesn't have to reverse direction as drastically off the rail to stay down for the 4-ball.

-Andrew

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

It was a different shot; he was following, not drawing.

Anyway, the CB does a bit of a masse, due to the elevation, in between the 3-ball and the rail. That makes it hit the rail further to the left than would be possible with a level cue, meaning it doesn't have to reverse direction as drastically off the rail to stay down for the 4-ball.

-Andrew

Wow, I did a quick-read, obviously! Yeah, in this instance, he's actually masseing on the shot. So long as you are close, it's not that tough to do. The key is to get the masse to happen AFTER contact.

 

[lights_out]

Ever seen this shot?

CueTable Help

You have to jack up quite a bit, and it takes a lot of control, but it is similar in concept.

I can visualize on this shot, seeing that the masse would cause the cueball to come in from the other angle and go up table for the nine. But the shot in question has a rail involved.

 

[Andrew Manning]

I can visualize on this shot, seeing that the masse would cause the cueball to come in from the other angle and go up table for the nine. But the shot in question has a rail involved.

Yeah, but it's the same concept. You hit the CB with masse spin (elevation, left english). Before the masse takes, the CB gets to the 3-ball and contacts it, hitting it toward the pocket. When the 3-ball slows the CB down, the masse spin takes, and instead of the CB rebounding to the right and uptable off the 3, it stays in tight on this end of the table on it way to the rail. The masse has changed the CB path to hold it left after contact. Then when the CB gets to the rail, it's travelling across the table instead of up-table, so it can easily spin back into position for the 4.

If you hit it with just high-left and a level cue, the CB would rebound uptable off the 3, and keep travelling at that rightward angle all the way into the rail. Then when it hits the rail at that angle, the spin has no hope of reversing it straight back down to the left. The spin will only slow it down a little as it continues up and away from where you wanted it.

Make sense now?

-Andrew

 

[lights_out]

Two things that help: it gets more spin on the cue ball in relation to its speed so you get a better angle off the cushion, and you get some masse curve on the way to the ball, so it's like you are playing a fuller shot. For the shot shown, only a champion has a good chance to make it work the first try with significant elevation. If you want to try it, make the shot shorter.

This makes it a little clearer, but... I would have hit it with a soft stroke and high left. I thought the low would take the cueball out further to the right before contacting the rail, where as the high would shorten the angle toward the rail, then let the spin grab. Something like this,

CueTable Help

 

[lights_out]

Yeah, but it's the same concept. You hit the CB with masse spin (elevation, left english). Before the masse takes, the CB gets to the 3-ball and contacts it, hitting it toward the pocket. When the 3-ball slows the CB down, the masse spin takes, and instead of the CB rebounding to the right and uptable off the 3, it stays in tight on this end of the table on it way to the rail. The masse has changed the CB path to hold it left after contact. Then when the CB gets to the rail, it's travelling across the table instead of up-table, so it can easily spin back into position for the 4.

If you hit it with just high-left and a level cue, the CB would rebound uptable off the 3, and keep travelling at that rightward angle all the way into the rail. Then when it hits the rail at that angle, the spin has no hope of reversing it straight back down to the left. The spin will only slow it down a little as it continues up and away from where you wanted it.

Make sense now?

-Andrew

It's starting to. Thanks.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Say What????

Ah, this type of shot was first shown to me by Jimmy Burke when I was a wee lad. By jacking-up and drawing, you are allowing the cue-ball to travel along the perpendicular angle a little longer than normal. It makes the cueball hop and won't draw back until it's done.

Sorry Jude....I believe it is against forum rules for anyone under the age of 60 to use the phrase "when I was a wee lad"

By your profile...you have to wait another 24 years......Oh...and by the way...I think you need to be Irish also...

 

[lights_out]

Sorry Jude....I believe it is against forum rules for anyone under the age of 60 to use the phrase "when I was a wee lad"

By your profile...you have to wait another 24 years......Oh...and by the way...I think you need to be Irish also...

From what I've read about Jude, he has the pool experience of a 60 year old. Can't help with the Irish part.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

From what I've read about Jude, he has the pool experience of a 60 year old. Can't help with the Irish part.

My grandmother helped me out with the Irish part. Her maiden name was Walsh.

 

[BRKNRUN]

From what I've read about Jude, he has the pool experience of a 60 year old. Can't help with the Irish part.

He is off the hook for the Irish part...since he has got a little Irish in him...

But the experience of a 60 year old does not fly....Next thing you know little Austin Murphey is going to be running around going "when I was a wee lad"....


(Just playin Jude....