rare high end Varney
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still the day round here I guess, its tap tap tap or three snaps quietly with thunb and second finger ... Nice Shot .. and I agree .. Bishop, tap tap taprackem said:Tap Tap TAp Something they did with the butt of the cue on the floor when someone made a good shot back in the day.
Tap Tap Tap to you my friend
nipponbilliards said:I do not agree Roger and Brain are doing anything bad by trying to ruin a deal.
>>It's OK for them to ruin deals as long as it's not your deal, right? Do you support them taking VARNEY to task because you are annoyed that he is competing for your customers with his J/B cue? Do a better job of service, there's a better chance that those who have your product will remain loyal.
QUOTE=nipponbilliards] Most importantly, I feel that it helps us to understand the cue maker or the seller better by watching how he handles himself in this kind of situation.
>>You must be joking. Why is it important watching how someone reacts when they're UNDER SEIGE by two well educated individuals who can be, caustic, sarcastic and who delight in baiting, irritation and provocation. Although I don't agree with his, or your, marketing style it was difficult to watch.
QUOTE=nipponbilliards] Roger and Brain and Ross did come up with back up reasonings to their opinion--they did not just trash the cue.
>>Was it a couple of HUNDRED posts into this thread or was it in a different thread that ROGER made the price comparison between VARNEY and MOTTEY cues?
QUOTE=nipponbilliards] In my case, I would love to hear feedback about why people think my cues are overpriced or underpriced, which cues do they compare my cue to and so on--I see no need to get into a fight with posters who offer such feedback.
>>Classic Richard promoting Richard in someone else's thread.
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]The bottom line is if I do not agree with the opinion, I can just leave it at that other than calling people names and insult the person who tries to offer me his valuable opinion.
>> Richard promoting Richard in someone else's thread at their expense.
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]When I first met Roger, the first email he sent me was one with some negative remark about the workmanship on the early X breaker. He was being quite straight forward. I think some cue maker might find that offensive, just like how some people here might feel about his opinion
>>I think VARNEY's reaction would have been different if ROGER would have sent him an email. Don't you??
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]After he recieved his new X breaker by Samsara, I called him while I was in Reno, because I wanted to hear his feedback again. His opinion has been really helpful. Of course, I love to hear good feedback and praises, but sometimes, I think a person needs to have an open mind, put down his ego, and listen--in order to improve
>>I see, you compensate ROGER for his keyboard skills with free "new and improved"cues.
Isn't the rest of the quote MORE RICHARD promoting RICHARD at someone else's expense in their thread
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]I also do not understand why if someone decides to buy this cue as a donation, then the price this person pays is an indication of the market value of the cue? Could someone please explain this to me?
>> Market value on VARNEY cues , like yours, will primarily be predicated by performance on the secondary market. As of now it appears like your used, original J/B cues are selling for apprx. $200 or about 57% of the initial $350 purchase price. It will be interesting to see if VARNEY's cues or yours hold their value better. Time will tell
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]His opinion is something I would not dismiss right away.
>>Is that why you give him cues and he trys to take care of "things" for you?
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]We sell cues to the general public, not cue makers, so the public's opinion of the value of our cues is really valuable and important to us.
>> More RICHARD promoting RICHARD in someone else's thread.
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]I can understand it if a person buys the cue as an investment or to add to a collection, or if the cue was sold right away. But in this case, this cue was offered at $1000 firm, then the price was lowered to $850, then to $800, then was taken off the market, before Randy offered to buy it and have it sent to the Windy City Open as a raffle item...
>>I'm at a loss as to what your trying to sayIf I thought I knew what you are getting at I still wouldn't try to interpret his motive. I'm sure he'll respond if he's so inclined. For your edification I can tell you he has a history of being a philanthropist
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]If I were the seller, I really would not have any reason to complain about it.
>>As I hope your happy with the exposure your getting.
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]This kind of exposure is really helpful especially for someone who is relatively unknown to lots of cue collectors and buyers worldwide.
>>As both VARNEY and you, to a lesser degree, are
QUOTE=nipponbilliards]Congrat to Mr. Varney.
>> I don't know if you will or you won't. I'm not privvy to VARNEY's thoughts.
BTW--how many cues have YOU made in your career? Have you ever made one with points? Have you ever sold cues you've made or have you always had someone else produce your product? Why are you compelled to have five (5) lines of SPAM in your signiture. Until this post you had shown improvement in terms of bogarting threads....
In closing I've directed my statements and questions only at Richard. If Richard chooses to respond we can continue our communication. I may communicate via PM with others.
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GADawg said:
1. You have made a good point. What Roger was concerned about was the rings that were raised, which was an issue that had been brought up in the forum publicly as well, and I have addressed that, and made improvement accordingly. This issue does not exist anymore in the new X breaker.
GADawg said:
2. That is correct, he made his comment about the rings after he purchased the cue and tried it.
In this thread, Mr. Varney made a claim to the effect of the hit of a Varney, which everyone should like, and therefore the price is justified.
Roger was commenting on that claim, not the workmanship or the hit of the cue. Brain then further chimed in to say that the "hit" is not everything to the value of a cue. I think JimBo and Ross then said something about the price being much higher than what they thought the market would bear.
With all due respect, none of them was commenting on the "hit" of the cue, which would require the person to have had tried the cue first; nor was Roger commenting on the workmanship, which he would have to have at least seen the cue in person for his comment to be valid. He was merely commenting on the claim Mr. Varney made.
GADawg said:
3. I agree with you that if Jay was happy to pay a hugh amount for a motocycle on a particular day, then that motorcycle is worth that much to him on that day; however, the price he paid is not an indication of the market value of that motorcycle. The market value of an item is not what one particular customer is willing to pay, it is determined by the supply and demand of the market place.
GADawg said:
4. You have a good sense of humor.
On one hand you are saying one should not comment on an item being overpriced in the for sale section; on the other hand, you are saying the X breaker is too expensive. I suppose you are doing it just to make your point? What happened in this thread, from my understanding, is that someone was questioning how a seller could use the "hit" to justify a price, which is viewed by some as being overpriced.
You asked me how I would feel if the same thing happens to me?
The X breaker is being sold worldwide. In Japan, a X breaker is being sold for almost double the price it is sold in the US. After our partnership with Samsara cues, our sales has more than doubled, even though we had to increase the price a bit due to the higher cost.
To answer your question, the demand of the X breaker far exceeds its supply. Since the market value of the X breaker is driven by its demand, I would not feel the least bit insecure if someone made a comment about the price. After all, lots of customers really appreciate being able to own a cue made by Samsara, with our latest technology, for less than $500.
Having said that, you have every right in the world to feel that the X breaker is too expensive for you.
The last thing I would do is to attack or insult you or ask you to leave me alone.
I know that I cannot please everyone, but at least I will try to respect everyone.
This is a place for everyone who loves to play pool, and it is a wonderful thing to have so many cue makers such as Mr. Varney trying to offer the customers something of high quality. Don't you agree?
Richard
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nipponbilliards said:1. You have made a good point. What Roger was concerned about was the rings that were raised, which was an issue that had been brought up in the forum publicly as well, and I have addressed that, and made improvement accordingly. This issue does not exist anymore in the new X breaker.
2. That is correct, he made his comment about the rings after he purchased the cue and tried it.
In this thread, Mr. Varney made a claim to the effect of the hit of a Varney, which everyone should like, and therefore the price is justified.
Roger was commenting on that claim, not the workmanship or the hit of the cue. Brain then further chimed in to say that the "hit" is not everything to the value of a cue. I think JimBo and Ross then said something about the price being much higher than what they thought the market would bear.
With all due respect, none of them was commenting on the "hit" of the cue, which would require the person to have had tried the cue first; nor was Roger commenting on the workmanship, which he would have to have at least seen the cue in person for his comment to be valid. He was merely commenting on the claim Mr. Varney made.
3. I agree with you that if Jay was happy to pay a hugh amount for a motocycle on a particular day, then that motorcycle is worth that much to him on that day; however, the price he paid is not an indication of the market value of that motorcycle. The market value of an item is not what one particular customer is willing to pay, it is determined by the supply and demand of the market place.
4. You have a good sense of humor.
What happened in this thread, from my understanding, is that someone was questioning how a seller could use the "hit" to justify a price, which is viewed by some as being overpriced.
You asked me how I would feel if the same thing happens to me?
The X breaker is being sold worldwide. In Japan, a X breaker is being sold for almost double the price it is sold in the US. After our partnership with Samsara cues, our sales has more than doubled, even though we had to increase the price a bit due to the higher cost.
To answer your question, the demand of the X breaker far exceeds its supply. Since the market value of the X breaker is driven by its demand, I would not feel the least bit insecure if someone made a comment about the price. After all, lots of customers really appreciate being able to own a cue made by Samsara, with our latest technology, for less than $500.
Having said that, you have every right in the world to feel that the X breaker is too expensive for you.
Richard
I like all the "we" and "our" in your posts. Did you personally MAKE the X-breaker?
Do YOU think this would make a little difference in your opinions? Personally, I think your "sales" strategy is wanting. Maybe you should go back to retraining. If your were the person trying to sell me an X-breaker, I wouldn't even remember the....wait, what were were talking about?
bogey54311 said:
Chris, I was never that rude in this thread, I never said a negative thing about this cue, certainly didn't call it anything along the lines of "piece of crap"....
This was my first post re the price, and it was in response to someone else's post:
buddha162 said:
The "price patrol" has caused a lot of anger and bitterness on this board in the past, and anything remotely resembling this behavior is quickly crucified. I have never been apart of this group, and to the best of my knowledge ever questioned someone's asking price on an item for sale. Again, if you read the progression of posts carefully, this was not a typical "your piece of s*** cue is priced too high" thread. There was a lot of back and forth, and people jumped to conclusions about other people's motives very early on.
I will admit that personalities and forum history, my own included, contributed to the hostile atmosphere. But I was genuinely surprised at how personal attacks on me got, considering the post I made about his cue was largely neutral, even leaning towards the positive and wishing him luck on the sale.
-Roger
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8-ball Rat said:I was, for one.
When I asked about the ringwork on the cue...and the timeframe to have a 2nd shaft made...I was asking because I was pretty certain I was gonna buy it (....hey...that's what I do. I buy cues on a whim.)
I sent Mr. Varney a PM, asking specifics and such. I was then told by Mr. Varney that he wasn't going to sell it to me, because he knew I didn't usually buy wrapless cues. He then went on to tell me that he didn't want the cue to be a closet queen....he wanted a player to have it.
Aside from the fact that I do consider myself a player....I'll just leave that comment alone......
Mr. Varney flat out refused an offer from me to buy the cue at his original asking price. Then he had the gall to lower the price TWICE on it...AFTER my offer.
I'm sorry......I don't feel bad for the man. He makes a great cue, and that's apparent. I don't think anybody can take that away from him. But for a man who's concerned about his livelihood and all, why turn down a sure sale??? I was beside myself. He had people here on the boards asking questions about his pricing...after which he reduces the price....while all the while, he had turned down an offer for his desired $1000.
FWIW - I think this particular thread has been beaten to death. Maybe it's time for us all to move on. I know I'd like to scroll through the threads without seeing this one at the top every day. Of course....me posting this puts it right back up at the top, don't it??
I wish Mr. Varney the very best, and I'm sure he'll continue to make great cues. I now know, though, that I won't be buying one....first or second hand.
WOW. That will open some eyes huh. I think any salesman would have sold the cue in a minute. But being the cuemaker I guess he can be picky. I don't see any point to this thread. It's just like ignoring a bully. If you just ignore them, than they go away. But if you want to argue, no one ever seems ot win. I think everyone should have just blown over the initial price comments and then moved on from there. It is a very nice cue. I hope it finds a good home.
Tony
8-ball Rat said:
I would like to explain the above. I did indeed refuse 1k from 8ballRat. The last time we spoke, he had one of my cues and was telling me that he could NOT play with it due to it had no wrap. I told him that this was not the cue for him either then. I apologize 8ballRat if you took what I said wrong...I'm sorry. I did not mean you weren't a "player". I simply meant that I prefered to get the cue into the hands of someone who would actually USE the cue. After putting so much heart & time into a cue...its nice to see them played with and appreciated instead of stuck into a 4x8 case in a closet. I think it speaks volumes as to how I feel about my cues that I turned down the 1k offer. I'd rather sell it for less to someone who will actually use the cue as intended. You must also realize that this was early in the thread when I still had the prospect of potential buyers. I had no idea of the direction of the thread or that it would be steered slightly away from actually selling the cue.
On a final note...I would like to personally thank NYC cue dude for buying the cue. Its nice to once again see an AZB member step up with such a show of class. Eydie is excited to be getting the cue as well. The cue will be displayed under glass at this years Windy City Open. Eydie & I have already spoken about my desire to find a player for the cue. The cue may in fact have a new home...after her husband tries it out a bit.
Thank you to everyone for their continued support, I appreciate it very much! I'd like to also wish everyone a very happy & safe Christmas.
Kevin Varney
Mr. Varney,Varney Cues said:I would like to explain the above. I did indeed refuse 1k from 8ballRat. The last time we spoke, he had one of my cues and was telling me that he could NOT play with it due to it had no wrap. I told him that this was not the cue for him either then. I apologize 8ballRat if you took what I said wrong...I'm sorry. I did not mean you weren't a "player". I simply meant that I prefered to get the cue into the hands of someone who would actually USE the cue. After putting so much heart & time into a cue...its nice to see them played with and appreciated instead of stuck into a 4x8 case in a closet. I think it speaks volumes as to how I feel about my cues that I turned down the 1k offer. I'd rather sell it for less to someone who will actually use the cue as intended. You must also realize that this was early in the thread when I still had the prospect of potential buyers. I had no idea of the direction of the thread or that it would be steered slightly away from actually selling the cue.
On a final note...I would like to personally thank NYC cue dude for buying the cue. Its nice to once again see an AZB member step up with such a show of class. Eydie is excited to be getting the cue as well. The cue will be displayed under glass at this years Windy City Open. Eydie & I have already spoken about my desire to find a player for the cue. The cue may in fact have a new home...after her husband tries it out a bit.
Thank you to everyone for their continued support, I appreciate it very much! I'd like to also wish everyone a very happy & safe Christmas.
Kevin Varney
As I said before, I wish you nothing but the best. You do make great cues...and you do have the right to ask whatever price you want to for them.
To be honest, you did spin me up quite a bit when you turned down my offer, as all the discussions on your price, the actual perceived value, your advertising methods, and the disasterous 10 pages of thread that followed could have all been avoided.
What killed me was that you KNEW you had turned down my full price offer...but afterwards, started making references to people affecting your "livlihood" in trying to sell the cue. Your livlihood must be in a better state than you let on, if you're willing to refuse full price offers and, instead, lower the tag in an effort to sell it.
Yes, I used to have another one (the Daytona Special)....and yes, I didn't like wrapless cues for some time. On THAT, you are dead nuts accurate. I have, since then, bought and played with a gogeous wrapless cue that I love....and wanted to buy yours to even out a nice set. We all see how well that went.
Lastly, if your "livlihood" is so dependant on the cues you create...you might want to reconsider how "pick-and-choose" driven you are when it comes to your buyers. Near as I can tell....a person with money to spend is HELPING you......and driving them away for your own personal reasons is not smart business. If you only sell cues to people you like (or who like you), you stand to cut your customer base in HALF.
I'm glad you sold your cue, and got the money you wanted for it. Just a shame you could've had the money earlier, and we ALL could have avoided this train wreck of a thread.
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